Over the last 4 years, the United States has endured a full-scale invasion of aliens entering and remaining in the country illegally, causing a relentless
Just to get back to some of the other points from earlier:
From what I heard the military has only gotten more authoritarian as time went on
The military has gotten a lot more diverse since around the year 2008. Authoritarian-ness, in my limited knowledge about it, seems like it’s kind of waxed and waned as decades have come and gone. Maximum during the Spanish-American war, World War 2, War on Terror, and then at a a minimum during Vietnam, the Bonus Army time, the Ed Snowden / forever war days. It did reach a peak around the time of the War on Terror, which is why I thought it was weird that you singled out Obama in particular. I don’t think seeking congressional authorization or not really has the slightest bit to do with how individual ground troops or mid-level commanders are going to react to stuff when Posse Comitatus issues start to come to the fore as they seem moderately likely to in the near future. There are some other issues which I think will impact people’s thinking much more.
I’d wager modern Hugh Thompsons would either find the military insufferable and leave or would be eventually broken by the system like everyone else, which would explain why you used an example from Vietnam rather than a more recent one from the war on terror.
Eddie Gallagher was reported repeatedly by his fellow SEALs. The other frontline troops seemed to think it was a much bigger problem that he was committing war crimes than the brass did, although he was eventually court-martialled. It’s not really clear to me whether they fucked up the prosecution accidentally or on purpose, but regardless, he wasn’t really punished, but the other soldiers definitely seemed to think that he should be.
The massacre at Haditha seemed like it was generally approved of by everyone involved. As was Abu Ghraib. Like I say, I think early-2000s war on terror era was pretty much the recent peak for authoritarianism.
As a broader point, about getting broken by the system, I just don’t think it works that way. I think the main thing is, how awful of situations do you get put into (the right kind of trauma will trigger almost anyone to become a violent maniac), and how much ethics and trust seem like they’re on display from the people around you and above you. How hard does the darkness go, and how much light can you see to counterbalance. That’s my personal take on it. I feel like it’s a very individual thing. I do think that people can have individual reactions to wide societal issues: Are you sucked into the Trumpworld view where killing Democrats is okay because they support pedophilia and they tried to attack Trump who did nothing wrong? Are you horrified by watching ICE commit atrocities? Have you seen people you respect get pushed out of the brass by politics? That kind of thing. But I don’t think that any military with any type of training can really stamp out that individual level reaction. As far as I know, they actually try to lean into it when they do propaganda during training, motivating people to see the world as “enemies are threatening your family, that’s what you’re fighting for” “we’re your brothers you can trust us,” that kind of thing. Because they know that at the end of the day, people are doing to do what they decide to do. I think that’s why the authoritarian bent waxes and wanes, too, because events and perceptions shift over time, and the reaction of the soldiers goes with it.
Okay fair enough. I guess this ship sailed a long time ago.
Just to get back to some of the other points from earlier:
The military has gotten a lot more diverse since around the year 2008. Authoritarian-ness, in my limited knowledge about it, seems like it’s kind of waxed and waned as decades have come and gone. Maximum during the Spanish-American war, World War 2, War on Terror, and then at a a minimum during Vietnam, the Bonus Army time, the Ed Snowden / forever war days. It did reach a peak around the time of the War on Terror, which is why I thought it was weird that you singled out Obama in particular. I don’t think seeking congressional authorization or not really has the slightest bit to do with how individual ground troops or mid-level commanders are going to react to stuff when Posse Comitatus issues start to come to the fore as they seem moderately likely to in the near future. There are some other issues which I think will impact people’s thinking much more.
Eddie Gallagher was reported repeatedly by his fellow SEALs. The other frontline troops seemed to think it was a much bigger problem that he was committing war crimes than the brass did, although he was eventually court-martialled. It’s not really clear to me whether they fucked up the prosecution accidentally or on purpose, but regardless, he wasn’t really punished, but the other soldiers definitely seemed to think that he should be.
The massacre at Haditha seemed like it was generally approved of by everyone involved. As was Abu Ghraib. Like I say, I think early-2000s war on terror era was pretty much the recent peak for authoritarianism.
As a broader point, about getting broken by the system, I just don’t think it works that way. I think the main thing is, how awful of situations do you get put into (the right kind of trauma will trigger almost anyone to become a violent maniac), and how much ethics and trust seem like they’re on display from the people around you and above you. How hard does the darkness go, and how much light can you see to counterbalance. That’s my personal take on it. I feel like it’s a very individual thing. I do think that people can have individual reactions to wide societal issues: Are you sucked into the Trumpworld view where killing Democrats is okay because they support pedophilia and they tried to attack Trump who did nothing wrong? Are you horrified by watching ICE commit atrocities? Have you seen people you respect get pushed out of the brass by politics? That kind of thing. But I don’t think that any military with any type of training can really stamp out that individual level reaction. As far as I know, they actually try to lean into it when they do propaganda during training, motivating people to see the world as “enemies are threatening your family, that’s what you’re fighting for” “we’re your brothers you can trust us,” that kind of thing. Because they know that at the end of the day, people are doing to do what they decide to do. I think that’s why the authoritarian bent waxes and wanes, too, because events and perceptions shift over time, and the reaction of the soldiers goes with it.