• @cocobean@bookwormstory.social
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      22 years ago

      I had to use Python for a bit at work and it was confusing

      pipenv, venv, virtualenv, poetry…wtf is all this shit

      a.b vs a['b'] vs a.get('b')…wtf is a KeyError

      • richieadler 🇦🇷
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        52 years ago

        What happens in other languages you use when you try to access a non-existing key for a hash/map/dict?

        What language do you use that accessing an object attribute is the same that accessing a dict key?

        What knowledge do you have (or not) that KeyError is a mistery to you?

          • richieadler 🇦🇷
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            12 years ago

            Because that’s prone to errors. And the Zen of Python includes “explicit is better than implicit” and “Errors should never pass silently”. Languages that do otherwise create bad habits.

  • Lambda
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    312 years ago

    After years, and many languages, I still have to say Ada. Kotlin, Rust, Julia, and Nim are my current contenders to overtake, but here’s what Ada does well enough to still be my preferred tool when appropriate:

    • strictness: typically my code works the first time it successfully compiles with few or no bugs. Rust is almost on par in this respect.
    • structure: a corollary of the above is that it forces me to “plan ahead” more than just “start coding” which I find fits my programming style better, and leads to better “Unix Philosophy” product designs. I haven’t found any other language that has the same effect other than maybe Haskell.
    • speed: I honestly find that Ada code outperforms C/C++ code most of the time. The only times C/C++ outperform Ada is after optimizations that come at the cost of readability.
    • multitasking: Ada’s first-class tasks and protected objects are the only way I’ve ever been able to write bug-free concurrent programs that are more complex than async/await and/or producer/consumer structures (and I took a dedicated elective on concurrency at university!). Kotlin is almost on par in this respect with its coroutines.
    • hardware: The fact that Ada basically ships with a hard real-time OS built-in and can compile to e.g. AVR means that all my fancy libraries I’ve written or saved work just as well for a desktop game, a website backend, or an embedded microprocessor. Just look into representation clauses and interrupt pragmas to see its unique powers.
    • design: The whole design of the language has lead it to be the only language where I can consistently return to a multiple year old passion project with no attempt to write maintainable code, and fully understand what its doing and modify it with little effort.
    • tooling: While this is the biggest downside of Ada (see below) gprbuild is still my favourite build tool. I have no idea why strongly-typed build systems aren’t more common. Its always a joy to work in gprbuild, once you get gprbuild working of course.
    • static polymorphism: Ada’s generics are some of the best I’ve found. But they have some limitations that leads us into…

    There are some situation where Ada shows its age:

    • static calculation: I love Nim (and Zig, etc) for the ability to run arbitrary code at compile time. It allows me to describe what would normally be an opaquely initialized data structure or code path in a clear and descriptive manner.
    • terseness: Ada is verbose, that’s not such a big deal, but I find its just a tad too verbose which can lead to some slight difficulty when parsing code. func/proc (Nim) vs fun (Kotlin) vs fn (Rust) doesn’t make much difference to me, but function X returns Y/procedure X starts to add a lot of visual noise to a file.
    • web compilation: The ability for both Kotlin and Nim to compile to either ASM or JS is AWESOME. If I have to write a “full stack” application, Kotlin multiplatform with ktor every day.
    • operator overloading: Only the built-in operators can be overloaded in Ada. It always makes me wish I could overload arbitrary operators. A small thing, but a symptom of…
    • TOOLING: Ada’s tooling is BY FAR the hardest I have ever seen to get working. It takes the “eat your own dog food” too far. The fact that even in Arch Linux you have to install a bootstrap package, then the real package shows how hard it is to get a consistent build environment. ALR is helping in this respect, but is still not quite mature in my opinion.

    Here’s when I use the alternatives, and their biggest weaknesses:

    • Kotlin: anything where I want both one or more JS artifacts and one or more JVM/native artifacts. Weaknesses: performance, static analysis, on the fence about tooling (gradle is cool, but sometimes seems too over-engineered), Biggest weakness: IDE dependency, writing Kotlin outside of IntelliJ is a pain, which is somewhat fair given who maintains it!
    • Rust: so close to beating Ada, if not for two things: ugly code - so many operators and glyphs that pollute the reading experience, maybe I’ll get used to it eventually, but for now I can’t scan Rust code, nor pick up and revisit it nearly as easily as Ada; language scale - I find Rust suffers from the C++ design attitude of “we can add this as a language feature” it takes too much mental effort to hold the entire design of the language in your head, which you sort-of have to do to develop software. Java and C are IMHO the undisputed kings in this respect. After reading through the specifications of both languages, neither will ever have any surprises in store for you. There’s no magic under the hood or special case. All the cool features are done by libraries and rely on the same simple syntax. Every time I learn a new cool thing Rust can do, its at the expense of another edge case in the compiler that modifies my conceptual model of the code.
    • Julia: multiple dispatch and mathematics plus clean module design and easy unicode incorporation leads to clean code for math-y/science-y code.
    • Nim: templates and macros are excellent, concept system gives access to Rust-style traits without all of the additional “ugliness” of Rust, excellent performance, tiny executables. I just find that the syntax can get clunky. The UFCS easily cleans up a lot of the mess that Rust creates with its added features, since it keeps the parsing the same even when using some fancy language feature.

    Thank you for attending my TED talk :P. Any questions?

    • @Scorchio@lemm.ee
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      32 years ago

      I learned Ada in the early 90s before being plunged into a world of C/C++. I haven’t heard much about it since, but I’m glad to hear it’s alive and kicking. I’ll have to have another look, see if I recognize any of it!

  • darcy
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    172 years ago

    rust thank you for asking

    crab army attack! 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

  • @httpjames@sh.itjust.works
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    172 years ago

    Go. It’s high level enough in terms of syntax that it’s easy to build complex apps in, and low level enough that I’m able to control pointers, manually run the garbage collector, and benefit from the runtime performance.

    It’s the best of python and JS.

    • @esscew@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      Hell yea. Can’t forget those compile times and that parallelism handling. I can’t think of a language that has a better dev cycle to performance ratio.

    • Xylight (Photon dev)
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      02 years ago

      I really want to learn it, and I understand the basic syntax and patterns. What apps did you make with it to learn it? I can’t think of anything big to make.

  • @Kissaki@feddit.de
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    132 years ago

    C#. Strong core, a lot of convenience extensions, extensive ecosystem, great docs, great IDE (VS) with suggestions, refacs, lingers, etc.

    • @Scorchio@lemm.ee
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      72 years ago

      C# is still my favorite. I’ve been pushed back into a C++ project recently and it’s just painful.

  • @XPost3000@lemmy.ml
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    122 years ago

    Python

    It’s real easy to just launch it and get a script going, no need to wait for and ide or a compiler, there’s alot of nice modules, and it’s really API friendly

    I’ve spent more time in the blender python API than I’d like to admit

  • @GBU_28@lemm.ee
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    102 years ago

    Python. I’m a data engineer by trade and the ability to just lay out functionality between different systems and move content fast is great. I know you can do that with many languages but python does scripting very well. And since by default I am working with remote/parallelized/containerized systems I never really lament pythons lack of speed.

    Obviously python is not the only language in my workweek.

  • Paolo Amoroso
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    102 years ago

    Lisp.

    It just feels extremely natural to me, so it’s difficult to pinpoint specific features I like. But two such features stand out: the parantheses-based syntax and the extreme interactivity.

  • @HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org
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    102 years ago

    PHP.

    It picked a niche and fits exactly into it. It’s a language for server side web pages. It’s not a general purpose language shoehorned into the task, so it wisely sets boundaries. PHP could avoid a lot of async/await/promise hell because you can work in the mindset of HTTP requests-- terms of short lived requests that are compiled elsewhere. You don’t have fragile runtime environments (see: server-side JS), since it just plugs into Apache or Nginx, which are at least battle tested and known quantities to operate.

    It’s batteries included. Hell, it’s the entire Duracell company included. The standard library is rich and centrally documented, including decades of community nitpicks, even before you go into composer repos.

    It’s non judgmental. You can write procedural code, or object-oriented code, based on preference and fit to task.

    It makes ad-hoc easy and formal possible-- If I need an array of [227, “Steve” => “meow”, 953 => new FreightLocomotive()] I can get it, or I can enforce types where it’s relevant and mitigates risk.

    • @saloe@lemmy.ml
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      32 years ago

      PHP really is such a forgiving language and easy to understand and get in to. My favorite part is that every time I have a seemingly very niche and specific use-case, there is a function that just does that thing perfectly and is already included in the base library.

      You said it and I’ll reaffirm: the documentation and online library of SO questions/answers is absolutely priceless. Most of the older versions are still compatible with the latest version, so upgrading is simple and usually just means there are more features you can use now.

  • @stillitcomes@lemm.ee
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    92 years ago

    Python. It’s the only one I know :(

    I’ve been trying to learn C# too but object-oriented programming just slides right off my smooth brain lol.

    • @Kache@lemmy.one
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      22 years ago

      object-oriented programming just slides right off my smooth brain lol

      Don’t worry, although it’s good to learn, IMO it’s still on the wrong side of overused and overrated and could stand to be applied more selectively than it tends to be.

  • Jeena
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    92 years ago

    Haskel, It’s kind of hard to do some stuff which are easy in other languages but if you find a good problem to solve with it, it’s amazing how expressive you can be and how short your code gets compared to all the boilerplate code you have to write with other languages.

  • foo
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    72 years ago

    It’s difficult to pick only one, but I’d have to say Ruby. The syntax is wonderful to work with, I can often implement the same logic in fewer lines of Ruby than other scripting languages I find, and it has constructs that make for elegant code like metaprogramming. It’s certainly not the fastest language out there and those same concepts like metaprogramming can be abused, but ultimately I find it to be an excellently designed language that’s a lot of fun to work with.