Wait until you hear how many people use facebook messenger.
💀
Yeah, that’s the real “internet explorer of messaging services”. Absolutely sucks to use it (doesn’t even.deliver messages to me half the time), but 90% insist on it for chat groupa and such.
I’ll take facebook messenger over whatsapp any day. At least it works on PC and has third party clients
I do have like 2 people I only talk to once or twice a year that I don’t have any other known contact for. But I only use it very rarely because of that. If I ever stop talking to them, I’ll finally delete the whole account.
I only use it because there’s no way I could convince my friends and family to move to anything else.
There’s no point in switching to another app if I then literally couldn’t communicate with the people I need to through it.
I’ve been using Beeper a month or two. They had a long waiting list, and initially it was subscription only, but they are working on smashing through the waiting list and have changed to a freemium model where you get it for free and (eventually) they will have extra features for subscribers.
Basically, it’s one chat app that connects to lots of different chat services.
If you’re technical, the app is a fork of Element, and the service uses matrix bridges to connect to different chat services, but it’s all presented in a (somewhat) polished way. The wait list is because they are still struggling with scaling and quirks but if you’re on Lemmy you’re probably already well familiar with putting up with this.
It covers heaps of chat networks. Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Signal, Telegram, and more. It also will let you SMS (unlike Signal 😬).
You can also connect to Matrix rooms but you don’t seem to be able to connect to an existing Matrix account (it uses a Beeper matrix account to connect).
It doesn’t do video/audio calls so they recommend you leave the original app installed and disable message notifications (but leave on call notifications) if you use this.
app is closed source :/
Looks cool though
Yep. But if you’re keen on this stuff, you can self host matrix and the bridges and do it yourself. Their bridges are open source, just not their apps whose features are their business model.
I remember I used to have Pidgin, but facebook closed the messenger API (I think, this was a while ago) How does this work?
I’m afraid I don’t know the details 🙁
For pidgin I think you can host your own xmpp server?
I think the core issue is that I don’t have enough social clout to get people to change messaging platforms.
Yeah, exactly. This is why Facebook exists.
We could solve this problem if we think about it in the right way.
A modern-day Trillian.
That’s interesting!
I’m just not sure the “security” of WhatsApp is preserved in that case but it’s certainly better than not being able to talk to certain people at all.
Also I think these kind of meta chat apps have been tried before and it usually doesn’t end very well so I’m not sure I would be super optimistic.
Any of the chat provider can break their link to beeper and since they probably don’t really care about it it shouldn’t very reliable.
But a cool find nonetheless!
Nice. Looking into this one. Although in reality I use about 95% whatsapp just because everyone else does. Wish we could all just switch to Signal or even Telegram but nah… Whatsapp is so engrained everywhere that it is not going to go away anytime soon.
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same here. Heck, even Nextcloud Talk is more sophisticated than frickin’ WhatsApp these days…
Same but replace WhatsApp with messenger and iMessage.
I literally installed Telegram/Signal on my families devices, synced their contacts with the app, and said “if you want timely responses, message me here”
Interesting I’ll look into it thanks
Signal is the best.
The thing it’s missing the most is better multi device support and an updated desktop client.
For me, I think Matrix is more complete (specially since it backs-up your chats and media encrypted). The only thing it’s lacking (at least Element specific) is encrypted chat search support on mobile.
What matrix is missing is anyone that I know. Ultimately that is way more important than features in a messaging client.
In my personal experience, everyone who has an account with Signal also has with Matrix. The main issue for me is who has an account at all.
I’ve used signal for ages but didn’t know what Matrix was until Lemmy tbh
In turn you can bet that who has one on Matrix will have one on Session, SimpleX and at least other 10 apps you’ve never heard about
It has bridges for most messaging services so you could use a matrix frontend for most of your messaging needs without having people on matrix so long as the server admin has set up those extensions
Signal client looks optimized on MacOS and Linux i don’t use Windows so not sure what’s going on there
+1 for linux cluent, absolutely no complaints
I register my Signal on off-shore phone number and i use it over MullvadVPN with multi-hop so i think is pretty private this way
I use it for linux. Recently there was a bug where if you had a chat opened, it would pin one core to 100% usage. It also lacks feature parity with the mobile client (ex: gif search and send).
Well Signal Desktop client and Server is running on Java 🥲🥲🥲
There’s no way that we can have a mainstream alternative to imessage if we keep declaring a new app or protocol the new best one every two years.
iMessage can’t be “the mainstream” app by locking out most of the world tho. Plus it is definitely the ugliest thing Apple has ever made in its lifetime that I know of.
All Google needs to do is make a public RCS API. Then we will have all the important features iMessage has on Android via regular texting. I have no fucking clue why they are making RCS exclusive to their messaging app.
I think have settled into what they know.
I think that iMessage is only prevelant in North America. Here in Europe (Portugal, at least), everyone uses Whatsapp.
Hopefully the new MLS for app interoperability will ease the adoption of any newer app
Yeah, it sucks that if I were using Signal only on my phone and eventually decide to start using it on desktop, it doesn’t sync any conversation history, resulting in the desktop client showing nothing from before you set it up. It should have older devices send history to new ones. If you’re permanently switching devices, are you losing that history for good?
Nope, you can backup the chats and import them when installing Signal on the new device
Hadn’t thought of that!
SimpleX or Matrix are way better
SimpleX >>>> Matrix
Session is good too but is only used by IT people… Signal is used by lawyers and many more
Still waiting for the ability to log in one two phones, and ideally also uncompressed photo/file sending
But yea Signal is great
I don’t think it’s really a chat app. Isn’t it just a text replacement? Or does it just use that number as your ID to use it? I have it, but only ever used it with one guy.
It has lots of nice features over SMS: read/typing notifications, image/video support, proper groups, message expiration. I think that makes it a chat app
I was implying mms as well. Didn’t know about the other additions. I only knew one person with it, and we haven’t spoken in years.
Chrome is the Internet Explorer of the browsers.
Nah definitely safari
Right, WebKit is the alpha versión of Blink and KDEs KHTML the ancestor
Such a weird statement. webkit is and has been a fully released browser engine for decades, companies forked from it for licensing and profit, not because it wasnt ready or complete (at the time)
Same as any browser engine, there isn’t a new engine since 20 years. Apart of Gecko, Blink and WebKit there are nothing else, apart of some experimental ones, mostly discontinued. WebKit is a fork from KHTML (KDE) and Blink is an improved fork from WebKit.
Safari 110%
Steven Crowder is the wife abuser of the meme world.
Fuck Steven Crowder and any meme based on his bullshit
Who’s Steve Crowder?
A asshole conservative influencer whose bad faith knows no bounds. He’s also recently been in the news for treating his ex wife like a slave/property. Really creepy shit.
Tldr; he’s a huge asshole.
He’s also recently been in the news for treating his ex wife like a slave/property
Wait wtf?
Oh yeah. The videos are horrific imo
But the memes are 👌
Fair
The why has been explained, but everyone assumes you know who Steven Crowder is. He’s the guy in the meme.
If you already realized that, that’s fine. It was a recent discovery for me.
Alt Right think tank leader
Everyone always says this every time this meme is posted without explaining why he sucks. I’m not motivated enough to Google it. Yes, I understand the irony of the fact that I’m writing this, and could have just googled it in the amount of time I’ve taken to type this out. I’m still not googling it.
Eh, whatsapp isn’t ideal and its owner is one of the big devils of today, but it’s the only way to send and receive instant messages among billions of people. I despise it, but it’s the only way I can contact people. Needless to say, they don’t give a single flying fuck about privacy.
Whatsapp outages make people migrate to Telegram for 1-2 days at most, nobody ends up staying there. Signal? I’ve only ever met three other people in RL who have even heard of it, and I work in IT.
A more apt comparison would be to languages. Whatsapp is english: clunky, weird, full of nonsense, but it’s what “everyone talks”. Signal would probably be lojban or esperanto.
This is SMS in the US. No one uses WhatsApp, telegram or matrix. Every iphone user uses imessage and so we are stuck with SMS.
Aside from needing a phone, I really don’t see the issue with SMS. For sending quick messages to people directly, is there really a better tool? You (most likely) already have a phone plan, you already have a phone, and your phone is always on you. Everyone you’re trying to contact is in the same boat, even people who are technically illiterate. All phones with phone plans support SMS, unless there’s weird plans I don’t know about.
When it comes to more complex needs (group management, e2e encryption, etc) other services are better of course. I don’t use SMS to text my group of friends, it’s really not well suited for the job.
SMS does not have any encryption at all.
Of course it doesn’t, I even called that out :)
Aside from needing a phone
That is a huge one for me. Yes, I have a phone. But I spend most of my waking time in front of a desktop or laptop. With Whatsapp, Telegram or Signal I can read and write messages from the computer, copy/paste text to the documents I am writing, and send and download files. SMS are more limited.
I use SMS for work. It’s the one we all know what message we send through will present the same on the other side regardless of phone. A big downside is that it’s limited to the phone. Messenger and WhatsApp can be read on laptops.
SMS is hard to have on multiple devices and it is hell of a work to become SMS provider. Internet based messaging is better in a every single way.
Even the network range is now not an advantage, as 3G is shutting down in many regions.
I don’t disagree, but that wasn’t my point. Everyone has access to SMS messaging. Not everyone has an internet-based messaging app, and those who do are split among several different services.
I’m not sure I have all of them, but I regularly use (privately)
- encrypted email
- unencrypted email
- text
- Meta Facebook Messanger
- Meta Instagram messages
- Meta WhatsApp
- Signal
- Telegram
- Microsoft Teams (yes, even privately)
I’m tired boss.
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As a Signal user and an Esperantist I agree. They both require a somewhat curious mind for you to bump into them in the first place. Unless you have that friend/relative who always recommends weird stuff for you (to ignore).
Why would it even be weird or anything? I only use Signal and its pretty much the same as whatsapp on the outside…just in blue. The only reason people dont use it is because “eVerYonE hAs WhAtsApP” and they dont bother. 20 useless crap apps but 2 messengers is too much
SMS is IE, Whatsapp is Chrome, and Signal is Firefox. Use Signal/Firefox.
I disagree. IE was incredibly proprietary, and SMS is at least an open standard.
IE is…idk Facebook messenger or Imessage or something.
ICQ
So how do I get my friends to use Signal instead of fucking Facebook messenger?
You can educate them if they ask but otherwise you can’t force them because most people are very resistant to this type of thing.
Your best option is to stop using FB messenger yourself and tell them they can reach you on Signal. If they’re really your friends, I’d like to imagine they’d follow you over. If your friend group switches, more people are sure to follow which will help speed along mass adoption and normalization via word of mouth to other friends and family.
Here, use this:
seriously, who made that jackass a meme?
Look, I hate Facebook just as much as the next guy. But I live in The Netherlands and it’s the primary way I can contact literally everyone I know. So changing to another messaging app is hard here.
Same in Australia. I have Facebook disabled, but I’ve got messenger to keep in the loop
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Just removed whatsapp a few years ago. If people need you, they will install Telegram!
Then you find out nobody needs you and you get depressed.
In some countries like India, people just assume that everyone uses whatsapp. It’s gotten to the point where whatsapp has become the definition of messaging (for most people).
I don’t see how Whatsapp is outdated to the point where one would compare it to IE, but I’ll say whatsapp is more like Google Chrome than IE.
Agree. I have family in Europe & they all use WhatsApp.
signal and telegram are so much better, don’t know why we can’t get over that shit app
telegram is awesome but please don’t use it if you’re looking for total privacy, as (by default) chats are not e2e-encrypted (this is done to improve sync/seamless multi-device chat history).
also they introduced a discord nitro-like subscription like a year ago and started putting all new features behind it…wasn’t telegram the top privacy app after signal like? other than matrix but I don’t consider it
Tbh, Signal is really lacking features at this point. That’s making it incredibly hard to convince others on using it.
Signal’s desktop app is just horrible. Whatsapp doesn’t even have a proper one.
I’m curious what do you find horrible about it? I use it all the time and have zero issues with it.
Chat history is almost never properly transferred when you install it. It also randomly loses chat history for no reason.
Also the interface is nowhere as good as telegram.
I was unaware that it was supposed to transfer chat history. It’s never once done it for me. I assumed it was like other platforms I’ve used where it doesn’t sync your history unless you backup and restore.
Well you’re somewhat correct about Chat history, but just that just comes with better security measures… Otherwise the only thing I dislike, that you can’t drag and drop files onto the contact list on the left, but only to the selected chat.
It’s also really buggy, and it’s got worse performance than even element. Like the calls don’t even make it through most of the time, and instead the other person just gets a missed call notification after you stop dialing them.
What features?
Multiple Chats in one Group (“Communities”), Polls, Group Calls are the ones that come to mind now. I think I had more on my list… 🤔
I don’t know if I understand the first one. But, good point on the other ones. Group calls would be really nice…
In WhatsApp, you can create “Communities” these days. In a community you can create multiple Chats/Groups with their own topic. So when you have a big community and different topics to talk about, you can create a chat for each topic so that you don’t have one spammy chat. That way all chats belonging to that community also are visible to all people which are in at least one of the communities’ chats.
Seems a lot like a Discord Guild. Very nice concept!
Well, it’s basically multiple Chats in one Group, so yes, but without all the permission stuff and so on.
No Android Tablet version. On iOS you can use your iPad, but can’t use a tablet alongside your phone.
Huh, I haven’t tried that. I use Signal on an Android phone, ipad, Windows computer, and Linux computer. I just recently started using Beeper though. I like that it uses Matrix for its back end between other Beeper users. But, I can use it to talk to people on Signal, iMessage, SMS, etc.
Well, tbh, WhatsApp also hasn’t had a Tablet version for the longest time. They are just now getting started with an Android Companion version.
No, but I don’t use WhatsApp either. Telegram across multi devices works so well, I use that.
But that’s a mess in terms of security. I love the telegram client and features as well, but that’s a strike for me.
Collective Action Problem is not a joke jim, Billions of people suffer every year
Interoperability is a weird one though. Imagine WhatsApp can connect to Signal, and people use this feature. What would then be the point of using Signal, if WhatsApp gets the data after all?
(Signal has already announced not wanting to support this, I just used it as an example)
As I understand it, your example should be the other way around. WhatsApp will need to offer a public API to allow Signal to send and receive messages to/from WhatsApp users.
Signal is unlikely to be deemed a gatekeeper, so can keep their closed communication ecosystem. They can just optionally choose to support interop with WhatsApp. If they prefer, they can also have big warning signs in the UI, when their users decide to utilize that interop.
Whatever way it works, I could see people giving up certain services if they allow interoperability with the gatekeepers, because why use these alternatives then.
But then again, the services that take privacy seriously won’t do it in the first place, so it should be a non-issue.
I just don’t want to be tied to an apple device to Message people who only have iMessage. I live outside of the US but all my family, friends, and contacts are there.
I feel locked into iOS as international texting and calls would be so expensive.
Both Apple and Google need to get their shit together on this one, put their pride aside and agree on a standard.
I’m an apple user, but I really think the issue is being created by apple. They talked about doing iMessage on android and then someone else was like no we can’t we want people to be locked into their iPhone.
Oh, it’s both. They both act like insufferable little kids with that
Google has also kept RCS proprietary. Google shares the blame as well imo
Thanks, I didn’t know that. I thought it was an open standard.
I prefer Signal to Whatsapp. IDC about Whatsapp having my data. The point is choosing the app which most suits your needs and wants.
So what needs do you have outside of a different look? Privacy doesn’t seem to be one of them, and the two apps are very similar otherwise.
So I can use one app I like and message or call anyone I need to reach without having to set up 10 accounts.
Fair enough. Won’t work with Signal though, they’ve stated that they will never open up
Signal is irrelevant. It’s just an example. I can try Telegram or any other app.
The point is that anyone could switch at any time and we wouldn’t have to make switch all at once.
There would be real competition.
True. However there are certain advantages
- WhatsApp gets only a part of your data (coz many people might be on different apps)
- You don’t have to run WhatsApp on your device so they can’t collect that data either
I know it’s not perfect but better than the current scenario and a step in the right direction
Since WhatsApp is proprietary, we don’t know if the users are the only ones who can decrypt their messages. I’ll always have to assume Meta can read everything, which is the most sensible data they could possibly collect.
So that alone should be reason enough to avoid it.
Yes. I don’t endorse WhatsApp. What I meant is if you chat with 15 people out of which 5 use WhatsApp, only those 5 chats are potentially readable by Meta. Because those are the only chats which will get sent to Meta servers.
So you have the benefit that the other 10 chats are not readable by Meta.
Yeah, true. And concerning your name and phone number, they probably already have that too, one way or another.
At this point I just assume Meta, Google and Apple have my number due to people storing the number on their devices. Amazon also might have it because people might have paid me via Amazon Pay (and given it access to contacts).
I think it’s already been passed, it should be coming into force next year!
Oh wow. TIL! Any recommendws sources? I want to read the full coverage
Oh yeah it says it directly on the wiki page you linked XD
was signed into law by the European Parliament and the Council of the EU in September 2022
Lmao my bad. Thanks I’ll read up about it.
WhatsApp seems very conservative with adding new features. I generally feel the features they do decide to add are all pretty useful. Telegram on the other hand doesn’t ever seem to slow down with the new features. Many of them seem great, but just as many I would never use. I’m still wondering why Telegram won’t introduce end-to-end encryption as a default.
The whole sticker implementation is absolute dog shit. How hard could it be to do a half decent implementation with customizable keywords for searching, custom sticker categorization, and backups? I have hundreds, if not over a thousand, stickers and it’s impossible to access them quickly to find the one you want. You end up just adapting to whatever is on your most used list, and you’re stuck scrolling for a while to find a different sticker, which In an active chat group it means you end up reacting super late to everything and the chat has moved on at that point.
MSN and the MSN+ plugin had this nailed down 20 years ago. Even telegram has a better implementation where you just add the entire sticker library for each new sticker; you end up with stickers you didn’t ask for, which is a negative, but everything ends up categorized in SOME way at least.
Its also ridiculous that whatsapp can’t be bothered to offer sticker creation in-app.
Dont get me started on chat participants count limitations and how utterly USELESS archiving a chat is. You can mute the chat and archive it, and a single message will just pop it back to the top of your list, as if you weren’t trying to actively avoid that. And whatsapp has been pretty useless for big chat groups such as big neighborhoods and the like. My HOA hasn’t added me or my friends to the neighborhood chat groups historically due to size limitations, which in itself perpetuated a toxic approach from the HOA where only sycophants are allowed into these groups. Most neighbors are left in the dark over decisions and meetings, which is utter stupidity and has 100% been aggravated by whatsapp’s limitations. Doesn’t matter that they’ve implemented alternatives to this, you try to get hundreds of boomers to understand how to use community chats.
You must live in a huge neighbourhood. Your points are valid, though you can now choose to keep chats archived even when receiving a message. Settings > Chats > Keep chats archived.
e2e encryption makes it difficult to provide fully cross-platform messaging experience, this is probably why they are not looking at it
They aren’t implementing e2e by default because that would limit the amount of data they collect and sell to intelligence agencies.
You can easily implement AES 256 in JavaScript. So you can tap the web framework on any device and run your app on just about any platform.
The problem is, They no longer get signal intelligence from it and can no longer monetize it.
Its privacy is very questionable, but how is it outdated?
How is the privacy questionable?
It’s one of the more secure clients. It has E2E across everything: DMs, Group chats, phone calls, video calls and all.
In contrast, Telegram, which is often championed doesn’t even support E2E for group chats. Laughable.
Yes, Whatsapp does some on-device analytics for advertising purposes, but your message is always E2E encrypted before sending.
They had multiple 3P audits to prove it.
Some delusional people use Facebook messenger instead claiming both are FB anyway. NO. FB messenger doesn’t have any encryption. Your messages are stored in plain text.
Yes, Signal and Matrix etc. are better, but no one is using them and that goes against the very idea of communication.
I know that they allegedly use the Signal proctol, but I find it hard to trust since not even the client is open source, even if their protocol is what they say it is, the keys could be harvested without issue, which is probably what happens when you use the reporting feature that allows them to read a piece of the message history, and they could still log your text input while typing. Of course, no way to verify neither their claims nor our theories.
#but no one is using them
Agreed, I did convince a fair few people, but it’s not always easy
Telegram laughs in the corner Whatsapp is copying telegram features that are implemented years before
Telegram is a superior messaging app but it’s privacy is questionable. The fact that they keep their encryption protocol hidden is bothersome and they aren’t e2ee by default. And as stated before, it’s not certain their e2ee is as private as they claim.
IIRC they did publish their encryption protocol, at least a lot of information about it is here. It’s true E2EE is not enabled by default.
In the end, both encryption protocols are hidden. We can’t really be sure they use what they say they are using in both cases.
TG has become a very big source of Piracy in recent years.
People only use TG for that mostly at this point.
How is that, in any way, answering the question?! You could mention some of those features…
Sorry, I don’t have Twitter, I tried opening the profile, but it keeps blocking me, even Nitter and Squawker don’t work
Edit: uhh, why did you edit out asking me to look up Telegram X’s Twitter profile? Now I look dumb lol
It’s copying features that hangouts has abandon.
