There is one big thing Ukranians gain: they get to live longer. Surrender just means that Russia comes through on a rape and murder rampage through areas they newly control
This is questionable, William Schabas whom is an internationally respected expert regarding genocide, states that the killings of civilians has became less common than at the start of the conflict.
And Russian goals aren’t total annexation but Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of the four Ukrainian provinces that they control or partially control which is already worst than Russia’s offer in 2022 (Ukraine had they accepted Russia’s offer in 2022 would keep all land and even Crimea was to be negotiable after 10-15 years).
No doubt there would be some isolated incidents but I don’t see any murderous rampage throughout occupied territories.
Seize Kyiv? Russian plans in 2022 regarding the northern front was sending the VDV
to capture Hostomel to create an air bridge which would reinforce Russian units that were going to drive towards Kyiv so Ukraine would capitulate to Russia’s demands. This didn’t work, so Putin entered in negotiations with Ukraine (the very generous 2022 offer I note above) that would still fulfill some of Russia’s demands. Essentially the entire point of the Kiev offensive was to force a surrender not to annex it.
More Ukrainians fled to Russia than other countries and Ukraine stated that a lot of people who did flee are now returning to occupied territories.
Lol. Pretty ridiculous given what happend I’m Bucha. The plan was pretty clearly to come in a day kill all the Ukranian men, rape the women, and take the land.
Surrender means a choice between death and evacuation.
They’ve been dispossessed and had their passports taken away. No longer trying to live as Ukranians in Ukraine. No longer a threat to Russian colonization
Bucha was an isolated incident and a horrific war crime but not one that necessarily shows Russian goals of this conflict.
So the mass graves of dead Ukrainian civilians, including dead children, is also an isolated incident? source
How about Russian soldiers killing the mother of a baby, leaving the baby alive but wrapping in a live grenade and taping it back to the dead mother? Is that also an isolated incident?
““In Chernihiv Region, Ukrainians entered a liberated village, and there lay a murdered mother, to whom the Russians tied a crying baby with tape. Our soldier cut the tape to take the child away, and a grenade exploded between the child and the mother. So my question is, what other level of escalation is needed?” Reznikov said.” source
You ask why Ukraine still fights. They know this is what russia will do when they have power to do to so to the people of Ukraine.
Yes, those are isolated incidents. All of your examples also took place in 2022, confirming what William Schabas stated which was that the killings of civilians has became less common than at the start of the conflict.
And it ain’t uncommon in war unfortunately, see America’s conduct in Iraq 2003 and beyond (where America actually managed to murder more Iraqi civilians than the amount of Ukrainian civilians that Russia murdered).
Compare with the Sudan regime which explictly wanted to exterminate the Darfuri people leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands in massacres.
I realize I’ve been wasting my time with you. I just checked your history. You joined 6 days ago and have been posting russian disinformation and revisionist history nearly nonstop for that entire time. I hope you’re paid well for your efforts. I won’t be seeing it anymore as you’re now on my block list. I imagine you’ll have to cycle your account soon because I won’t be alone in blocking you.
There is one big thing Ukranians gain: they get to live longer. Surrender just means that Russia comes through on a rape and murder rampage through areas they newly control
This is questionable, William Schabas whom is an internationally respected expert regarding genocide, states that the killings of civilians has became less common than at the start of the conflict.
And Russian goals aren’t total annexation but Ukraine’s recognition of Russia’s annexation of the four Ukrainian provinces that they control or partially control which is already worst than Russia’s offer in 2022 (Ukraine had they accepted Russia’s offer in 2022 would keep all land and even Crimea was to be negotiable after 10-15 years).
No doubt there would be some isolated incidents but I don’t see any murderous rampage throughout occupied territories.
They literally tried to seize Kiev, and civilian murders by Russia are less common because people flee.
Seize Kyiv? Russian plans in 2022 regarding the northern front was sending the VDV to capture Hostomel to create an air bridge which would reinforce Russian units that were going to drive towards Kyiv so Ukraine would capitulate to Russia’s demands. This didn’t work, so Putin entered in negotiations with Ukraine (the very generous 2022 offer I note above) that would still fulfill some of Russia’s demands. Essentially the entire point of the Kiev offensive was to force a surrender not to annex it.
More Ukrainians fled to Russia than other countries and Ukraine stated that a lot of people who did flee are now returning to occupied territories.
Lol. Pretty ridiculous given what happend I’m Bucha. The plan was pretty clearly to come in a day kill all the Ukranian men, rape the women, and take the land.
Surrender means a choice between death and evacuation.
Bucha was an isolated incident and a horrific war crime but not one that necessarily shows Russian goals of this conflict.
Why does Ukraine itself admit that ~100K people who did flee are now returning to occupied territories? Doubt?
Why are Ukrainians escaping to Russia?
No coherent argument for Zelenskyy to continue this bloodshed it seems.
People run from war zones in whatever direction they can. Shocker.
And why aren’t these 100K people that fled but returned, being raped and murdered en masse?
They’ve been dispossessed and had their passports taken away. No longer trying to live as Ukranians in Ukraine. No longer a threat to Russian colonization
So the mass graves of dead Ukrainian civilians, including dead children, is also an isolated incident? source
How about Russian soldiers killing the mother of a baby, leaving the baby alive but wrapping in a live grenade and taping it back to the dead mother? Is that also an isolated incident?
““In Chernihiv Region, Ukrainians entered a liberated village, and there lay a murdered mother, to whom the Russians tied a crying baby with tape. Our soldier cut the tape to take the child away, and a grenade exploded between the child and the mother. So my question is, what other level of escalation is needed?” Reznikov said.” source
You ask why Ukraine still fights. They know this is what russia will do when they have power to do to so to the people of Ukraine.
Yes, those are isolated incidents. All of your examples also took place in 2022, confirming what William Schabas stated which was that the killings of civilians has became less common than at the start of the conflict.
And it ain’t uncommon in war unfortunately, see America’s conduct in Iraq 2003 and beyond (where America actually managed to murder more Iraqi civilians than the amount of Ukrainian civilians that Russia murdered).
Compare with the Sudan regime which explictly wanted to exterminate the Darfuri people leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands in massacres.
I realize I’ve been wasting my time with you. I just checked your history. You joined 6 days ago and have been posting russian disinformation and revisionist history nearly nonstop for that entire time. I hope you’re paid well for your efforts. I won’t be seeing it anymore as you’re now on my block list. I imagine you’ll have to cycle your account soon because I won’t be alone in blocking you.
That’s because Russia has had less success seizing and holding territory since that time.