Hey Folks!
I’ve been living abroad for over half my life in a country where tipping is not the norm. At most you would round up. 19€ bill? Here’s a 20, keep this change.
Going to the US soon to visit family and the whole idea of tipping makes me nervous. It seems there’s a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don’t know how much has changed in this regard.
The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.
So will AITA if I don’t tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?
Yes. You really have to tip. 20%. Sorry. And tax isn’t included in the prices of things. That’s the way things work here and you can choose to spend the whole time being annoyed by it or not. But please don’t make a personal protest that only hurts some of the lowest paid and hardest working people.
To be as clear as possible - the minimum wage for tipped staff is $2.13/hr. That’s why you have to tip.
This is deceiving though. In The US tipping is literally everywhere now.
If you are waited on, I. E. Sat at a table or served at a bar, tipping is expected. If you go to a counter and place an order and someone hands you something while you’re standing there, those workers aren’t making 2.13/hr.
usually people differentiate between fastfood and actual restaurants.
It’s not just fast food though! Everywhere from the tiny ice cream shop to the boutique waffle place. Starbucks (who are becoming increasingly unionized) to the local sandwich shop that only does sandwiches, doesn’t have tables and doesn’t deliver all have tip jars now. It’s up to the patron whether to do it or not and our laws should be updated to ensure people don’t need them.
I don’t tip if there’s no service being provided. Bringing my food to my table after I ordered it from a kiosk and filled up my own drink at the soda fountain doesn’t qualify.
And this isn’t universal either. For example, Culver’s will bring your food out to you but you don’t tip. So I would add that if you’re waited on and pay for the meal AFTER eating and being waited on, then you tip.
This does depend on which state you’re in (some states don’t have a “tipped wage”), but the vast majority of service workers are not raking in the big bucks, so be generous if you can!
Oregon has kind of a hybrid tipped wage. There’s a minimum tipped wage, but if tips don’t add up to at least the regular minimum wage then the establishment needs to make up the tips for the shift.
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Not true, restuarants have to make up the difference in their wage if they dont make enough in tips.
Yes, up to minimum wage, which is still often not enought to live on.
It’s definitely not enough to live on, but that’s beside the point, isn’t it? I don’t tip any other people because they earn minimum wage-- do you? The point is that the person isn’t actually making only $2/hr-- they’re making at least minimum wage, with the opportunity to make more via tips.
Tipping needs to end, and the laws changed to reflect it.
Being a waiter is a skilled job that deserves more than minimum wage.
I don’t disagree, but that is irrelevant to the discussion, is it not?
That’s just my response to the argument that you can choose to not tip because waiters will make minimum wage regardless. Minimum wage is not an appropriate salary for that line of work.
However, yes, I agree that laws should be changed to remove tipping or at least to require restaurant owners to pay an appropriate wage for the work with optional tips on top for exceptional service.
Do you tip the Walmart Greeter? Why or why not?
Yeah, legally.
In practice? Lol
A higher federal minimum wage would solve this problem. Employers are required by law to make up the difference between the base wage and the federal minimum wage ($7.25/hr) if nobody tips.
But obviously $7.25 isn’t a living wage either, so any tipped employee that actually makes the federal minimum is living almost entirely on tips.
That’s assuming that employers follow the law, which for restaurants is rarely the case.
Fair point. And this is why unions are beneficial to the working class, and also why shitty companies like Starbucks try to bust unions.
If the service is bad I would go for 10%
Only if it’s really bad though, and on purpose.
If it was something the employee couldn’t control or just a generally bad experience that was nobody’s fault, still 20%. Place is swamped and the waiter never gave me a drink refill because they’re the only one on the floor, still 20%.
Just FYI, we have recently had a huge influx of electronic systems asking for tips in places that tips didn’t exist before. I only tip when I sit down to eat at a restaurant and they serve me. If you walk up to the counter to order, you don’t tip. If you are ordering takeout (even at a sit-down restaurant), you don’t tip.
It’s a really fucking stupid system that most of us hate, but if you don’t participate, you are the asshole according to our culture (even though we know it’s really the businesses not paying their employees enough that are really the assholes)
Edit: oh, and then “suggested tip” went up around the same time that these electronic systems popped up. My whole life, a 10% tip was bad, a 15% tip was average. A 20% tip was good. Now it seems the “suggested tip” says you should tip 20% minimum. I think this is bullshit, and I ignore it. The people who are suggesting the tip are the ones that benefit from it going higher. They are always going to try to increase it as long as they can get away with it. I stick to the 10/15/20% rule.
There’s been a small movement towards going tipless that hasn’t yet caught on because tip culture is primarily backed by greed. Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
I know I’m likely misrepresenting, but that’s the gist as I see it, and until greed goes away everything @dandroid@dandroid.app said holds true.
Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.
A lot of employees want this as well. Those who do well in well traveled restaurants or bars then to make WELL over the minimum wage. This is why the employees get mad at the patron/client rather than their employer when they don’t get a tip. It works… it’s what many of them want.
The sad part is that prices for things have already been going up considerably… So what was a $5 tip @ 10% years ago is now closer to $20 tip @ 20% today for the same meals/amount of food. It isn’t a 2x increase at all… Since it’s % based on subtotal and those costs have been going up… it’s significantly more if you follow their “minimum” percent tips.
I follow something similar to Dandroid and refuse to change. I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food. If I get shit service, you’re not getting a tip. If it’s basic service, you’ll get 10%… 15% for “good”… 20% for outstanding. Although looking at the laws in my state, I’m debating on cutting it back considerably. Minimum wage in my state is not the $3.and change per hour for those positions. It’s just about $11 and the normal minimum wage is $13 and change. So if I’m the only table in their whole section, and I tip 2$ per hour, they’re making minimum wage. And people here still complain about the tipping… The only explanation is greed… and I can’t stand that at all.
As I recall, restaurants can get by with giving workers well below minimum wage because of tips.EDIT: I just re-read your post
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
This is a great resource when these discussions come up. Many states do NOT adhere to the $2.13 tipped wage.
In my state (AZ) it’s $10.85. People here still complain about tips. The minimum wage here is $13.85. The $3 difference is nearly guaranteed as long as long as you have 1 table an hour. Forget that the normal where I live is probably closer to 3-4 every hour. [I recognize that other areas may not have such traffic. But I can only comment on what I observe]
If the average table is leaving ~$5 in tips… you could easily make $30 an hour in wages.
This is why I say what I say… It’s absurd when I hear local news or something complaining. $30/hr is stupid “livable”.
My state is listed in the “required to pay full minimum wage” category. Good to know.
“I could do profit sharing and have all my employees benefit from busting their ass, or I could pay them next to nothing and force the customers to supplement their income out of respect or pity.”
It shouldn’t shock anyone that the practice of tipping has a racist history.
Please continue to tip service workers.
My view is: I don’t like this cultural element, and I am glad that I live in a country without it. But if I am a visitor from abroad I would not resist the local culture and try to impose my own values. If I am aware of this cultural element and I dislike it, my options would be to either avoid restaurants and other tipping situations as much as I can, or simply account for the tip when making my financial decisions, and pay it.
If I live in the country then it is different, because then I am more entitled to be a driver of change. Personally, my approach would be to support businesses with explicit no-tipping policy, and to refuse receiving tips myself.
No one can force to tip and as Americans we hate the tipping culture too.
Some people love it, namely the ones that have most to gain.
So business owners, and extremely attractive waitstaff
Sort of — there are definitely restaurants which include gratuity, either for all parties or for parties greater than X people (e.g., 5 or more).
One of the best answers so far, thanks! I’m not a foreigner, but I’ve been gone for over half my life, so it certainly feels like it. Coming back it always a culture shock.
There are already a lot of good answers here, but I thought you might appreciate a fictionalized version of my personal experience.
—
Back in the kitchen, the hostess comes in.
“I’ve got a 2-top at table 23, who’s next in the rotation?”
“Uh… I think it’s Bob, but he’s busy doing bumps in the walk in. I’ll take it. They nice?”
“Uhh, I think they’re German.”
—
Unfortunately for them, the knowledge that Europeans tend to tip poorly or not at all proceeds them. The server who took the two top will still serve them, but either consciously or subconsciously the service will suffer. Maybe your food was done five minutes ago sitting on the hot line, but your server decided to go chat up the elderly couple or the regular customer instead. Maybe the server is more rude or cold to you than other guests. Or maybe you’re lucky and your server isn’t yet jaded. Your mileage may vary depending on if you’re eating in a small town diner or a tourist hotspot, but even if the service seems fine, there’s almost certainly chatter going on behind your back from the moment you sit down.
There’s a very small chance that your server will chase after you if you leave no tip, but that is virtually unheard of and will get the server fired if it’s a nicer establishment. The more likely chain of events is that you leave, the server checks the checkbook, then goes into the back-of-house to scream/cry/drink/smoke/fuck someone/something. It’s completely ruined several of my shifts.
—BUT—
The above is all wrong. It felt gross to type, and feels grosser to know that I once felt that. These feelings may have been ‘valid’ considering the tipped system that I was a part of, but I have a hard time thinking of them as ‘reasonable’. As an empathetic human, I wish to treat everyone well. Also, I love travel, and would love to spend 30 minutes talking about the Cologne cathedral or the Bielefeld conspiracy or whateverthefuck. But I can’t, because then I’d be actively losing money. The profit motive of tip system makes servers, managers, and even clients all jaded. The anger that I felt when I was stiffed was unjustly redirected from the tipping system to the individual, because the system is designed to perpetuate itself. I make less money now, but I’m very glad I left that industry.
—
BONUS: If you want to see a hilarious yet barely over exaggerated vignette of what American servers do and how they think when you can’t see them, give Waiting… (2005) a watch.
ha ha thanks for this!
Here, unfortunately, YTA if you don’t tip. I forgot once and had the server run after me to make sure something wasn’t wrong. Some service folks take it personally if you don’t tip, which makes sense given that their employers don’t pay them shit. So yeah, you the customer foot the bill for ensuring these people can make ends meet… as if giving the restaurant your custom wasn’t support enough.
The problem is that, like most other industries here in the US, the system is rigged against the working class. While not all restaurant owners intend to fuck over their staff (especially smaller, local places), it’s how it works. Now, some places will automatically add gratuity to your bill under certain conditions, so check your breakdown to ensure it’s not already included. This is becoming more common, which irritates me since I scale my tip based on the quality of the service rendered.
Also, we know it’s expensive here. Don’t bother coming here to complain about it, we do it enough ourselves. Tipping is here to stay for now and I don’t imagine it changing for quite some time.
Just to add onto this good answer, you are really only expected to tip for sit-down restaurants with service and bars.
For takeout, cafes, fast food, etc., you don’t need to tip. A lot of places these have payment machines that just ask if you want to tip by default. You can safely hit “No tip” on these if you don’t want to.
Ostensibly it’s just to replace the tip jar for those who don’t use cash, but the prompt appearing every time you pay by card has convinced a lot of people that tipping is what you’re supposed to do in those situations, when in reality you have no obligation to.
Damn now I feel dumb for tipping at vending machines.
Yes in the service industry where you will be served you very much likely would be expected to tip. So places may make this more obvious then others with a tip bracket on the receipt or signs somewhere.
Its also important to note most places in the US expect a 15% tip of what you spent but in some higher dense areas where the CoL is out of control it’s 20%
Do waiters actually get paid? Like an hourly wage? Or do they rely fully on the tips?
The federal minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13/hr. Basically nothing. It wouldn’t cover your gas cost to go to work in most cases.
Wtf. US at it’s peak. At my first job, when I was 14 y/o, I made more than that (€2.72) doing restocking at a supermarket.
As far as I understand it, US servers prefer the current system as they make more money from tips. Personally, if you prefer this system I think you don’t have any right to complain or get upset if someone doesn’t tip.
It really is absurd.
Wtf. US at it’s peak. At my first job, when I was 14 y/o, I made more than that (€2.72) doing restocking at a supermarket.
Supermarket stockers are not tipped so a higher minimum wage applies, which is $7.25 right now. However, laborers are also in high demand so most places pay more than the minimum.
If their tips don’t pass the actual minimum wage, the employer is required to pay the difference up to the minimum.
Servers are paid a sub-minimum wage, as tips are supposed to round out their wages. When I wanted tables my paycheck barely covered the taxes on my cash and credit card tips.
In most HCOL areas there is a higher minimum wage even for tipped workers, so keep that in mind. In DC for example minimum wage for tipped workers is going up annually over the next 4 years to meet regular minimum wage, up to about $17/hr. I anticipate tipping percentages should go down as this phases in as there will no longer be a differentiation.
They typically get paid below the state’s minimum wage. :(
Definitely tip. If you think the whole system sucks that’s fine, but don’t take out that frustration on the likely vastly underpaid employees
You enter a social compact when you enter an establishment that does tipping. When you don’t tip, you’re not making it better, your making sure someone goes hungry
if:
a. a person “has” to rely on other people to tip them
b. said person goes “hungry” if a single person/table doesn’t tip themyou… uh… have other issues to think about
Like that our entire economic system is broken in such a way that this is a thing that happens? Yes. At the restaurant is not the time to get on your soapbox, and the exploited service provider you’re refusing the tip is not the person to be taking it out on
Have you worked in the industry? This happens!
Yes, it does make you the asshole, especially because you know that’s what we do here and why we do it. Until living wage laws are passed, it’s not going to change.
In all honesty, I will probably just tip the minimum amount and try not to let it get to me. Its not like I’ll be out eating by myself anyway, there will be plenty of social pressure to help me along :)
But imagine if all jobs worked this way. Oh, you wanted a good outcome for your surgery? Maybe you should have tipped your surgeon! Oh, you wanted your taxes done correctly? Should have tipped! Sorry boss, I would have gotten you that report on time, but you forgot to leave me a tip!
I also think its silly that tips are based on the price of your meal, as if that has anything to do with the service whatsoever. So the person who ordered a steak pays more in a tip than the person who ordered a salad? Why? It would make way more sense to tip based on time spent in the establishment. I would understand a standard 5$ tip per half-hour or something way more.
Here’s the thing. There are now tips added to all sorts of checkouts. And it’s muddier than ever.
As an American I don’t tip shit unless it’s a full service restaurant. Aka they are refilling my drinks for me.
If I’m getting a sandwich at a sandwich line where you stand in line and call out what ingrediants you want and take it to go, I don’t tip. If I’m just getting a coffee black, I’m not tipping. Etc etc.
The checkouts now though ask for tips on all sorts of stuff. I increasingly refuse to tip for things like self service places, takeout, etc.
This is it. There is a kind of understood, cultural part that some of the other commenters are missing.
There are situations where (traditionally) tipping is expected, and that is at a sit down style restaurant or at a bar. If the restaurant requires you to fill your own drink, bus your own table (clear the dishes), or carry your own food typically Americans do not tip (this would apply to most fast food places, or places as you’ve described where you walk up to a counter). Do most of these places still put out a tip jar? Yes. Do most customers tip? Probably not (check the jar, it might have some token coins or a few dollar bills in it, but it will not be full).
Are you an asshole for not tipping? That depends on what the situation is. Did you just sit down for a 2 hour meal with 10 people and leave $5? Yes you are an asshole. Did you drive through Starbucks or a burger place and not put a couple bucks in jar? You are probably not an asshole.
I hate tipping culture but I’m not going to take it out on workers. My personal rule of thumb is if someone is bringing me something or performing a service for me then I tip.
For example, I will tip at a restaurant where they bring things out, for a haircut, for cutting my grass, or for delivery services (food or grocery). I will not tip for counter service (except for the taco truck down the street, but they’re dirt cheap, and I may round up my bill at other food trucks), bakeries, stores (a few small ones without their own POS are using systems that have tip lines enabled by default), or gift shops.
Yeah like the other guy said, I only tip if it’s a sit down restaurant with an actual server who attended to you. If you are checking out somewhere and the kiosk thing prompts for a tip, I almost never do.
Always tip the cab driver a few bucks.
If you are at a hotel you should tip the valet for parking. Honestly though at hotels, tipping pays for itself. Hotel staff are demigods that can bestow good fortune if they smile upon you, so you definitely want to appease them. It’s amazing what slipping a $20 to the person checking you in can do for you.
When in doubt, you can just ask candidly what the etiquette is. Everyone knows its weird and different everywhere.
Well, I get your general point though tipping at a restaurant doesn’t quite work like that. You don’t get crappy service as a result of not tipping; you tip at the end of the service.
I tip 20% no matter how dismal the service, which is not the norm here. People have bad days and I don’t want to financially penalize them on top of it. It just feels shitty.
Until people stop tipping for bullshit we don’t need to tip for, like all the card readers the last couple years that have added tip buttons for just paying for literally anything, those laws will not get passed. Why would they when customers just will pay employees wages?
Yep, 100% the asshole if you’re eating out at restaurants here and you don’t tip. Other things can be a little more debatable, but the 15-20% standard for eating at a restaurant is set in stone. If you don’t tip or give a low tip, the server will assume you hated their service or that you’re just an ass. It’s a dumb rule, but it is what it is here right now.
To sum up, if you work in a business that relies on tips, you will defend the crap out of tipping and will be biased towards tipping uncontrollably.
If you are a business that wants to squeeze every penny, you will encourage and propaganda tipping as much as you can.
If you are anyone else you will wish for something different.
I recommend that you tip when the app says to tip, just simplify your life and if a screen says add a tip choose the minimum for now and don’t worry about it yet.
Tipping used to be a way to implement a truly granular free market (or however you want to justify it, that’s besides the point). Point being is, it’s how service workers largely get paid. So regardless of how we got here, to not tip them is to not pay them fairly for their work. The problem now is that commerces turn tipping on by default at point of sale devices indiscriminately. So tipping when you see the screen is poor advise as it just gives into greed and manipulation. Follow the original rule: you tip when there is personalised service rendered, for example restaurant waiter, or driver, or barber or hair dresser. If it is neither personalised, nor a service rendered by an individual, you never tip.
Nobody can force you to. People will probably consider you to be rude, but you do yours. I also live in a place where not tipping is customary (and in fact tipping considered to be rude) and refuse to embrace this system. I’m already annoyed by list prices excluding VAT. That’s like a borderline scam.
We don’t have a VAT in the US, only sales tax. It’s not just a name difference, they’re different in how they’re applied
Ok whatever it is, the price on display is not the final price, and I feel scammed.
They’re not different to the consumer. Either way they’re a surcharge to the store price of the item, and most places in the world include it on the sticker.
I am aware. I was just correcting the one thing not disagreeing as a whole
Yeah I guess I’ll have to see how comfortable I am in the situation. I feel like the stupid system will never change unless people just stop tipping.
I don’t see how the system would change unless people stop tipping, but as a foreigner I don’t see it as my responsibility to change their system.
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The simple rule of thumb is: if you are in a full service sit down restaurant (waiter takes order and then brings you your food, tipping is expected, and not doing so is seen as a major dick move, because it directly stiffs the waitstaff. The only time you should not tip in this situation is if the service is absolutely horrible.
Any other situation, like ordering at a counter and then going to get your food, or any fast food, tipping may be offered as an ask on the kiosk, but it’s never expected (not in my opinion deserved.).
But simply: if you are waited on, too 20% and be done with it.
And that’ll only hurt the poor employee’s efforts to pay rent this month. The employer could care less, and sure you may make them mad enough that you’re the last straw and they quit, but I’d be hard pressed to think you’re magnanimous for it.
Couldn’t care less.
Well then, please don’t visit.
As long as you know your supposed “goal” of “helping” isn’t accomplished and that server now hates you, and the owner you’re opposing got his share and doesn’t even know you exist, do what you wish I suppose.
I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food
everywhere else I preemptively give the stank face as I mash the ‘no tip’ button on their payment system
I usually just round up to the next $5 amount to make the numbers clean, don’t really care what the % is
so a $16.83 bill gets a $3.17 tip
this makes it easier to plan a meal budget, like “ok I’m spending $20 on a burger and fries today”
But you should tip extra for delivery drivers too
oh yeah, I actually do for local food/grocery deliveries
$5 or $10 depending on how much crap I order, not sure what the expectations are though for this type of service??
20% minimum, more if they’re exceptional (eg if they came by bicycle in the rain)
They get paid by their employer. I don’t pay their wages, their employer does, and if they don’t, they should find a better employer
So you actively support businesses that pay their employees less than living wages? And you won’t provide that wage directly to the worker?
Wow, you’re an oblivious privileged asshole that actively contributes to other people’s suffering.
It depends.
If you go to a restaurant where your food is brought to you are probably going to be expected to tip.
But, if it’s a Fast Food restaurant like McDonald’s or someplace you stand in line and get your plate like Chipotle or a buffet you’re not going to be expected to tip.This is a very good rule of thumb.
Important to note that the credit card machines pretty much everywhere will still ask you if you want to tip now, to the point where I’ve seen jokes about lifeguards and ambulance drivers pulling out an iPad with tipping options, I think the processors are hoping psychology will make them a little bit more cash. Either way, it is not an asshole move if you don’t tip at Subway. IMO it makes it more likely at some point that an employer tries to lower their hourly wages to the hourly + tips you see elsewhere.
I’m from Australia, where we don’t tip; and yes; you have to in America. It’s likely that the person serving you needs tips to survive, so think of it as money for them directly. (even tho in most cases I don’t think they get 100%?) I make a point of not tipping at home because people should get paid a living wage without having to rely on tips. I say you’d be the asshole because customer service employees in USA need that extra money to make ends meet.
But isn’t the the employer who is the asshole for not paying a living wage?
Yes, but that’s just the unfortunate reality
Only time tipping should be observed is when you’re at a restaurant that seats you at a table and takes your order. And when you order delivery. Anything else is just people gaming the system to get whatever they can from people.
Edit: I missed bartenders (sorry!). Tip your bartender! They will take care of you if you tip well.
Delivery as well. If you don’t top the pizza delivery person I would assume they will very much not like you.
This is the way
