If you’re a kid now, sure. Using that term if you’re older than 23 is definitely trying too hard.

paying money for something you can get for free is idiotic and unethical

i also feel this way about human adoption, but that’s another argument

I don’t know if you understand the adoption process…but even after hospital bills (assuming insurance), making a baby is a lot less expensive than adopting.

Hitting max-OOP on most HDHPs (Glossary for non-Americans – Maximum-Out-of-Pocket; High-Deductible Health Plan) itself is less expensive than “cheap” adoptions. (And for most healthy couples of child-bearing age, HDHP’s are already the more economical choice for health insurance, especially if you are contributing to HSA (Health Savings Account)…can only get that with an HDHP, and fuck FSAs)

And I haven’t heard of any (human) orphanages that euthanize kids they can’t find a home for, at least not this century. It wouldn’t surprise me, in this timeline, though.

There is no ethical breeding as long as shelters are euthanizing to save space

There is nothing wrong with ethical, responsible breeding.

Except that almost no one does it and 90% of breeders are just people having their animals fuck in their backyard.

Source: numbers came out of my ass, but I know a breeder and they were the second kind and agree.

Purebred = inbred. You can whitewash the process all you want, there’s simply no way to make “purebreds” that isn’t inherently unethical.

I mean coming from someone who thinks treating pets as property is fucked up I don’t think it’s that hard to convince me that making them in a factory is a bad idea

Don’t stop there. Keep explaining the problems with breeding while you talk shit about people who actually give a shit.

Oh you must know op personally then.

Otherwise, why else would you accuse someone of “virtue signaling,” before going on to list a bunch of real issues with it?

Interesting!

The author does not deny that free-ranging cats affect wildlife populations and it is important that field researchers continue to monitor their effect. But future studies need to take into account what is known about cat predatory behavior, estimates of total prey population size, and interpret the data without prejudice. It remains to be seen whether the media consider and publish reports of less dramatic findings.

I don’t have the scientific literacy to evaluate the quality of the paper or journal but thanks for sharing this, it seems like the idea that cats are so harmful to local wildlife may not be as well supported position as I though! Now I’m curious if there have been any meta analysis or systematic reviews since. The paper was published in 2022, which is pretty recent but it seems possible things have progressed and become more clear which would be neat

Thanks for the link! ☺️

The difference is that the outdoor cat population is artificially boosted by human feeding. If millions of people started feeding foxes they would also become a problem.

I’ve had a lot of cats over the years, with a few very accomplished hunters of mice, which I constantly found beheaded in the back yard.

But as far as I know, they only killed one bird, and the murderer was so excited, that he came and got my wife and I, and led us to the scene of the crime, to brag about it. Clearly not something he did often.

I watched one cat leap into a flock of sparrows on the ground. They all flew off, and she leaped epically, and brought down a single bird, holding it under her paw, clearly not sure what to do at that point.

Suddenly a sparrow dropped to the ground about 6 feet away, and started flopping around, as if injured, and making a LOT of noise. That attracted my cat’s attention, and as she took one step toward the “injured” bird, she lifted her paw off the captured bird, and both birds flew away, leaving her empty-handed, with a VERY confused expression.

I believe the bird-killing allegation is far overblown, and birds have developed their own defensive strategies as well.

Yes

Sorry is it your position that invasive species are fine?

I feel like thats a little bit of a simplification/anthropomorphization (which is fine obviously, its a theadiverse comment not a research paper, I just think this subject is interesting and am taking an excuse to talk about it :)

Generally prey drive is an aspect of play for animals. Most animals, especially animals domesticated for hunting related tasks like pest control, enjoy hunting and would benefit from hunting recreationally even if they were provided food. Its part of cat’s ecological niche to hunt for food, it fulfills a psychological need not just a physiological one (which is why providing your animals with enrichment is very important. Please consider your animals’ psychological needs and play with, exercise and enrich them). Dogs with high prey drive are the same way.

Cats aren’t really uniquely sadistic, there just aren’t many examples of domesticated animals with high prey drive that have all their meals provided for them AND have the ability to free roam.

If you fenced in an big area and left greyhounds (another high prey drive domesticated animal) in it while giving them enough food, they would 1000% hunt and kill bunnies, squirels, etc well beyond what would ever make sense for them to eat. Both cats and greyhounds are animals who’s ecological niche became even more hunting-centric as a product of domestication-- cats being used for rodent control, and greyhounds for hunting small game as sighthounds.

Bettas in aquaria will still form bubble nests even if they have no mates (and also hunt for anything and everything they can put in their mouth if you have a food web in your aquarium, even if you feed them adequate prepared foods, depending on their temperment). Schooling fish will school even when there are no threats, though more loosely. Animals that hunt will still want to even if their food needs are met. Performing their ecological niche and evolutionary strategy is biological fulfilment for animals and its the gold standard of enrichment for animals in captivity because it fills a psychological need.

It’s like people on social media. Not here to have a healthy debate based on facts and getting off on insults and hate.

It’s lovely, is it not?

There are valid arguments both for and against but the one most commonly used, that they decimate bird populations, is heavily contested and not actually found in evidence.

Just because cats kill birds doesn’t mean that those birds would have otherwise made it to mating season. You have to actually check that, and most papers into the subject never bother to do that part, mostly because it’s actually quite hard.

Actually one of the best arguments against letting your cat outside is not to protect birds, it’s to protect insects. The defleeing liquid the cats are often given gets into the water and as a devastating effect on aquatic insect life. You shouldn’t be giving your cats flea treatments unless they actually have fleas and then you keep leave them inside for a few days.

AFAIK some bio/organic farms use cats for pest control rather than the alternative which is, I guess, poison/traps.

As always, there’s nuance. A barn cat or two have their uses to keep rodent population in check near storages and silos, but reality has shown me that there are a lot of farmers who do not fix their cats, which causes them to roam much farther (unfixed cats have a much larger territory) where there is no advantage for the farm anymore and causing a population explosion of cats who then wreak havoc on the ecosystem, while the farmer, not knowing what to to with the third litter of cats this year, kills them. These are the big fucking moron fraction.

My spouse and I have a Maine coon mix that is exactly like that. He plays fetch, has an exercise wheel that still doesn’t tire him out enough to let me freakin sleep in the mornings, loves water, and even ‘wags’ his tail so much that it’s beefy, just like the rest of him. All domestic cat, no need to hybridize them with wild cats and create at least 2-3 generations of animals that can’t happily live indoors before you get something approaching a pet.

Tbf if you ask a lot of pets they will happily eat poison