Correct. Before people say “it should be $25/hr,” federal minimum wage is only matched by the poorest of states. State minimum wage increases would be warranted and implemented in states with a higher cost of living following the federal wage hike.
I moved from upstate NY to eastern PA in 2020.
The average fast food worker was making 50% more in upstate NY. Most prices were the same, if not within 10 cents at worst.
Given there’s lots of states still sitting at $7.25, $17 is certainly a step in the right direction. But it should be $25/hr and people should be pushing the idea that $17 is too small, but still better than nothing. $17/hr is already the compromise and treating it like it isn’t doesn’t benefit it. But its also not helpful to be defeatist about it not being enough.
It’s not a compromise. Federal minimum wage should be enough to live on in the poorest state. More than that would create private business deserts in poor areas, forcing the locals to exclusively patronize corporations. More of the population would need social program assistance to help pay for the increased cost of our domestic food supply.
More than that would create private business deserts in poor areas, forcing the locals to exclusively patronize corporations. More of the population would need social program assistance to help pay for the increased cost of our domestic food supply.
… If we’re talking about Arkansas… all of that has already happened.
You know Walmart is… from, and based in Arkansas, right?
20 ish % of the population is already below the poverty line… and the poverty line is basically ‘lets assume you have no rent and are homeless and just want to be able to buy food’.
That means 20% of the state is already getting SSI, SNAP, TANF, etc.
…
The US Federal poverty line is about $35 dollars a day. about $13k a year.
If you converted that to a full time wage, thats about $6.75 an hour.
The US Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour.
50 cents of difference.
Hasn’t changed since 2009.
From 2009 to 2025, if you go by CPI, a single 2009 dollar is worth about $1.50 2025 dollars, that is to say, prices have risen by 50% in 16 years.
…
Arkansas is literally an economic disaster zone.
41% of the state struggles with getting their basic needs met, multiple independent observers and international aid agencies have compared the level of poverty, lack of education, access to healthcare… to areas of the world recently devastated by wars.
You say the cost of living is 36-37k.
That must be for a single person.
As of Nov 24, the median individual income in Arkansas is $29,740.
That makes the median wage about $15.50 an hour.
The median individual income in Arkansas cannot afford the average cost of living for a single person.
Arkansas is already the state equivalent of a mentally unsound person being deemed incompitent to make their own decisions and be declared a ward of the state.
Bumping up the min wage would be more like doubling the care and support staff for the assisted living facility that is Arkansas, already massively dependent on Federal subsidies to the poor… and the laughably tiny tax rates on giant megacorps that allow said megacorps to dominate its economy.
…
If you want to see what unchecked hypercapitalism looks like, you’re looking at Arkansas.
Exactly my point. A $17/hr minimum wage in Arkansas would correct that while still allowing small businesses to employ workers. $25/hr would ensure it remains a corporate-controlled state.
What… would actually make much more sense would be to index the minimum wage to some other, per state metric.
A fraction of median income, some formula that actually does a good job of estimating a minimum standard of living…
But, that will never happen, because … well basically half of voters and half state legislatures fundamentally either do not understand how to, or believe in laying a foundational safety net layer for society.
The income and CoL disparities within the US are… basically as wild as the differences between EU member states, but our governance systems are… well, pretty much fundamentally broken at this point.
So that’s what the states are supposed to do with their own minimum wage. The federal minimum wage is not the one we should be challenging for livable wages unless the wage is unlivable everywhere. States absolutely should be setting their own minimum wage to keep people out of poverty in their state. For example, the federal minimum wage is currently $7.25/hr, but NY state minimum wage is $16.50/hr.
An adjustable minimum wage would increase the wealth gap. Companies would not be providing cost of living increases along with performance increases, keeping more people near the bottom.
We need our government to regulate prices on essential goods and/or subsidize them through taxation to keep them from inflating faster than wages increase. Nordic nations employ mixed-economics for this and it’s quite successful.
Did you hear our Gov. Sanders (no relation) wants to allow child labor at below minimum wage, and increase the number of positions that can pay minimum-tipped-wages of $2.13/hr ?
Federal minimum wage should indeed increased. But, I have heard people recently complaining that McDonalds workers shouldn’t be receiving a living wage, because they worked at McDonalds 5 decades ago. I keep my mouth shut and yearn to move away when my familial duties are complete (or my will is exhausted).
I’m not surprised. DeSantis is trying the same thing in Florida, to offset the lost farm workforce due to mass deportations. We’re basically cattle to these people.
The McDonald’s argument is old and outdated. Back when a family could comfortably afford necessities and some luxuries, those were seen as after-school jobs. It’s a very different world now. Any full time position should be able to afford someone all necessities. If not, it’s the very definition of exploitation.
I got into a lot of debates as to how. Raising the federal minimum wage alone isn’t enough. Our nation’s cost of living varies far too widely for that to work without destroying small businesses. We need systemic reform with more smart subsidies and democratic socialism to keep necessities low. Possibly even regulatory pricing. Inequality will only worsen with AI replacement.
I agree it isn’t enough. I want UBI and Medicare4All and post-secondary education (including trade schools) free to accepted students, and so much more.
But, I will gladly take a federal minimum wage increase. I do think it should be set based on cost of living in the cheapest/poorest states, and that some states should have an even higher minimum wage.
(I would not directly benefit, I’m currently unemployed, but generally paid significantly more than minimum wage [I’m a computer programmer by trade.].)
Are you aware there is more wealth inequality in wealthier states than poorer states? There’s no state in the US like Saudi Arabia. Wealthier states have a higher cost of living, making it more difficult to earn a livable wage, not less. That’s precisely why states set their own minimum wage, which is unfortunately below representative of the difference in cost of living.
Because I understand economics, and it’s not the right tool for the job.
If you raise the federal minimum wage too high for the poorest states, private businesses will not be able to employ workers. Raising wages directly increases the cost of goods, driving consumers to corporate chains, shuttering local businesses whose employees end up working for minimum wage for the corporations. That’s how you end up with an entire state on welfare and SNAP benefits while working, just to make ends meet.
What you want is a livable wage everywhere, which I am all for. That cannot happen by increasing the federal minimum wage. Smart subsidization and mixed-economics (Democratic Socialism) has proven to be the most effective way to achieve that goal. Look into Nordic mixed-economies for reference.
Honestly you don’t or you’d understand it’s too low. The entire point of a minimum wage is it’s supposed to be the minimum amount a person needs to make to survive as businesses will do everything they can do pay as low as they can. It’s the floor and shouldn’t be a poverty wage which it continues to be as people like you say we can’t possibly do anything to help people.
That drives people to corporate chains, shuttering local businesses whose employees end up working for minimum wage for the corporations. That’s how you end up with an entire state on welfare and SNAP benefits
Notice how that’s already the case in most of small town America, to the point large corporations train staff during orientation on how to get it.
This is why go higher and force them to actually pay.
Then again you only want the bare minimum so what’s the point of trying to convince you of anything
Benefits 340 million Americans* FTFY
A rising tide lifts all ships.
Correct. Before people say “it should be $25/hr,” federal minimum wage is only matched by the poorest of states. State minimum wage increases would be warranted and implemented in states with a higher cost of living following the federal wage hike.
“But muh McDonald’s prices!”
They’re already $10 a meal my dude, and Amazon is Amazon no matter where you live
10$? Where I live a fucking Quarter Pounder meal is near 17$. Shits insane.
I moved from upstate NY to eastern PA in 2020. The average fast food worker was making 50% more in upstate NY. Most prices were the same, if not within 10 cents at worst.
Given there’s lots of states still sitting at $7.25, $17 is certainly a step in the right direction. But it should be $25/hr and people should be pushing the idea that $17 is too small, but still better than nothing. $17/hr is already the compromise and treating it like it isn’t doesn’t benefit it. But its also not helpful to be defeatist about it not being enough.
$17/hr is $35,360/yr. The median income in Arkansas, the state with the lowest cost of living, is currently $36,761.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arkansas
It’s not a compromise. Federal minimum wage should be enough to live on in the poorest state. More than that would create private business deserts in poor areas, forcing the locals to exclusively patronize corporations. More of the population would need social program assistance to help pay for the increased cost of our domestic food supply.
… If we’re talking about Arkansas… all of that has already happened.
You know Walmart is… from, and based in Arkansas, right?
20 ish % of the population is already below the poverty line… and the poverty line is basically ‘lets assume you have no rent and are homeless and just want to be able to buy food’.
That means 20% of the state is already getting SSI, SNAP, TANF, etc.
…
The US Federal poverty line is about $35 dollars a day. about $13k a year.
If you converted that to a full time wage, thats about $6.75 an hour.
The US Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour.
50 cents of difference.
Hasn’t changed since 2009.
From 2009 to 2025, if you go by CPI, a single 2009 dollar is worth about $1.50 2025 dollars, that is to say, prices have risen by 50% in 16 years.
…
Arkansas is literally an economic disaster zone.
41% of the state struggles with getting their basic needs met, multiple independent observers and international aid agencies have compared the level of poverty, lack of education, access to healthcare… to areas of the world recently devastated by wars.
You say the cost of living is 36-37k.
That must be for a single person.
As of Nov 24, the median individual income in Arkansas is $29,740.
That makes the median wage about $15.50 an hour.
The median individual income in Arkansas cannot afford the average cost of living for a single person.
Arkansas is already the state equivalent of a mentally unsound person being deemed incompitent to make their own decisions and be declared a ward of the state.
Bumping up the min wage would be more like doubling the care and support staff for the assisted living facility that is Arkansas, already massively dependent on Federal subsidies to the poor… and the laughably tiny tax rates on giant megacorps that allow said megacorps to dominate its economy.
…
If you want to see what unchecked hypercapitalism looks like, you’re looking at Arkansas.
Exactly my point. A $17/hr minimum wage in Arkansas would correct that while still allowing small businesses to employ workers. $25/hr would ensure it remains a corporate-controlled state.
I get that.
What… would actually make much more sense would be to index the minimum wage to some other, per state metric.
A fraction of median income, some formula that actually does a good job of estimating a minimum standard of living…
But, that will never happen, because … well basically half of voters and half state legislatures fundamentally either do not understand how to, or believe in laying a foundational safety net layer for society.
The income and CoL disparities within the US are… basically as wild as the differences between EU member states, but our governance systems are… well, pretty much fundamentally broken at this point.
So that’s what the states are supposed to do with their own minimum wage. The federal minimum wage is not the one we should be challenging for livable wages unless the wage is unlivable everywhere. States absolutely should be setting their own minimum wage to keep people out of poverty in their state. For example, the federal minimum wage is currently $7.25/hr, but NY state minimum wage is $16.50/hr.
An adjustable minimum wage would increase the wealth gap. Companies would not be providing cost of living increases along with performance increases, keeping more people near the bottom.
We need our government to regulate prices on essential goods and/or subsidize them through taxation to keep them from inflating faster than wages increase. Nordic nations employ mixed-economics for this and it’s quite successful.
Yay, my state was mentioned.
Did you hear our Gov. Sanders (no relation) wants to allow child labor at below minimum wage, and increase the number of positions that can pay minimum-tipped-wages of $2.13/hr ?
Federal minimum wage should indeed increased. But, I have heard people recently complaining that McDonalds workers shouldn’t be receiving a living wage, because they worked at McDonalds 5 decades ago. I keep my mouth shut and yearn to move away when my familial duties are complete (or my will is exhausted).
I’m not surprised. DeSantis is trying the same thing in Florida, to offset the lost farm workforce due to mass deportations. We’re basically cattle to these people.
The McDonald’s argument is old and outdated. Back when a family could comfortably afford necessities and some luxuries, those were seen as after-school jobs. It’s a very different world now. Any full time position should be able to afford someone all necessities. If not, it’s the very definition of exploitation.
So Say We All
I got into a lot of debates as to how. Raising the federal minimum wage alone isn’t enough. Our nation’s cost of living varies far too widely for that to work without destroying small businesses. We need systemic reform with more smart subsidies and democratic socialism to keep necessities low. Possibly even regulatory pricing. Inequality will only worsen with AI replacement.
If your shitty business is too worthless to pay your employees a living wage, you should stop exploiting people.
I agree it isn’t enough. I want UBI and Medicare4All and post-secondary education (including trade schools) free to accepted students, and so much more.
But, I will gladly take a federal minimum wage increase. I do think it should be set based on cost of living in the cheapest/poorest states, and that some states should have an even higher minimum wage.
(I would not directly benefit, I’m currently unemployed, but generally paid significantly more than minimum wage [I’m a computer programmer by trade.].)
So it’s already barely enough now so we shouldn’t want it higher in the future?
It’s not barely enough. It’s the median income.
It’s the same picture.
Alabama is a developing country.
It’s barely enough in the poorest state, how is that acceptable to you?
Just to show how bad it is, in today’s money if it’s a family 17 just 2 dollars over poverty wage of 15.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-minimum-wage-is-a-poverty-wage/
Because they’re not in rich states, so their lives have no value.
Are you aware there is more wealth inequality in wealthier states than poorer states? There’s no state in the US like Saudi Arabia. Wealthier states have a higher cost of living, making it more difficult to earn a livable wage, not less. That’s precisely why states set their own minimum wage, which is unfortunately below representative of the difference in cost of living.
Or simply because it’s not pure free market so should get removed completely.
They seem really in favor of just removing gov protections
Because I understand economics, and it’s not the right tool for the job.
If you raise the federal minimum wage too high for the poorest states, private businesses will not be able to employ workers. Raising wages directly increases the cost of goods, driving consumers to corporate chains, shuttering local businesses whose employees end up working for minimum wage for the corporations. That’s how you end up with an entire state on welfare and SNAP benefits while working, just to make ends meet.
What you want is a livable wage everywhere, which I am all for. That cannot happen by increasing the federal minimum wage. Smart subsidization and mixed-economics (Democratic Socialism) has proven to be the most effective way to achieve that goal. Look into Nordic mixed-economies for reference.
Honestly you don’t or you’d understand it’s too low. The entire point of a minimum wage is it’s supposed to be the minimum amount a person needs to make to survive as businesses will do everything they can do pay as low as they can. It’s the floor and shouldn’t be a poverty wage which it continues to be as people like you say we can’t possibly do anything to help people.
Notice how that’s already the case in most of small town America, to the point large corporations train staff during orientation on how to get it.
This is why go higher and force them to actually pay.
Then again you only want the bare minimum so what’s the point of trying to convince you of anything
Yeah, but centrists like having a permanent underclass to exploit.