I know opinions on this vary a lot depending on the country and culture, so I’m curious what others think. Personally, I have a 22-year-old son. I bought him a house and a car, I pay for his university tuition (his grades are high enough for a state-subsidized spot, but we feel that should go to someone more in need), and I basically support him fully. We want him to focus on his studies and enjoy this stage of his life. He will finish his dentistry degree in 2028, and then we plan to finance the opening of his private practice. We’ll stop providing financial support once he’s earning enough to live comfortably on his own. I see many parents online (especially in North America) talking about kids moving out at 18, paying rent to live at home, and covering their own bills, and it honestly shocks me. That feels unfathomable to me. I believe that as parents, we have a duty to give our children a good life since we brought them into this world.
Telling kids to move out at 18 is the equivalent of an adult forcing their senior parents in the worst senior home as soon as they hit 65
No way.
Parents owe their children a life debt, not the other way around.
One of the best things I can do for my child is not burden them later in life.
I definitely agree that parents should do their best to not be a burden to their children, but in case some unplanned circumstance happens and my kids have the ability to help, I’d be extremely disappointed if they didn’t. Love goes both ways imo.
Yeah but what I’m getting at is that I owe my son the world, he owes me nothing.
I brought him into this world, it’s my burden to bear.
I believe he’s gonna choose to be there for me if I need it but the expectation has never been ingrained in him.
He is my burden, he is his own burden, if he has kids he can be that for them.
Love goes both ways, but the responsibility ought only go one way.
I’d go a bit further and say that one is the natural consequence of the other tbh.
I fully agree with you. A person that becomes a parent must realize that it is, in a way, a lifetime thing, and that there is a responsibility to help provide a good life, as much as possible.
Helping is one thing, paying for everything is something else. I don’t want my kid lying awake at night worrying about bills but I want her making decisions about how she’s spending her money and having to go without things.
I think equitable help makes sense as a parent, also fostering a mindset with your kids to not take much more than what’s needed. Post-18 I plan to help pay towards their car insurance, phone bill, and living expenses as long as they are at home. Once they move out, I’ll still help with what I can until they tell me otherwise.
I’m not optimistic I’ll be able to financially provide as much help as I would want to give. Also I’m not optimistic that a young person will be able to afford their own home easily 20+ years from now. Unless there’s more public housing or a sudden increase in the amount of houses being built, I expect real estate to keep going up but wages to stagnant, without intervention at least.
I’m off the opinion that if the parents stops providing financial support to the kids, the kids don’t have any obligations to support them in old age
…you bought him a house? I mean, good for him, but that’s pretty wild. I’m guessing the car probably isn’t an ’05 Toyota Yaris either.
When I was 20, my parents gave me 50 € a week for a few years so I could just barely cover my expenses, since my student financial aid didn’t quite cover rent and living costs. That stopped the moment I got my first job, and I’ve pretty much been on my own ever since. They did help pay a few repair bills on my first car and backed my mortgage, but beyond that, I haven’t gotten any financial help from them.
I honestly think you’re doing him a disservice by helping that much. I don’t think I’d appreciate money the way I do now if I hadn’t had to struggle through those early years. It was reassuring to know my parents were there if something truly catastrophic happened, but I’m grateful they only helped just enough to keep me afloat - and not a bit more.
agreed. everyone i know who has parents like this… turned into awful human being. selfish, greedy, lying, perpetually unhappy, and extremely entitled. and looks down on everyone who isn’t as wealthy as they are as subhuman.
blows my mind how warped your work ethic and apprecation for money must be when it’s just handed to you with zero effort.
I honestly think you’re doing him a disservice by helping that much.
His son will be a Dentist. This isn’t a child that is doing nothing with their life. Think of how much farther you could be in a career if you had more support. Instead of being an employee, you’d be the employer.
Zero is the norm in Germany, and I appreciate it that way. Other than providing housing until I moved out at 19 shortly after finishing high school, I got no monetary support from family.
Plenty of good advice, distance with where and how to apply for grants, actual help on how to conduct research during uni, helping carry stuff when I moved houses, helping to draft my first cv and cover letters, and moral support and whatnot, sure.
But money? Other than maybe sending me 200 Euro for my birthday or ordering pizza when I visited, nothing, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Nothing prepares people more for adulthood than being responsible, and at the same time not feeling you have to pay back.
Zero is the norm in Germany
I guess I grew up in a different bubble in Germany, as almost everyone I knew at university did get some financial support from their parents. Bafög was never enough to cover rent etc and jobs for students were in short supply, so it was pretty much necessary. Not to mention that you get less Bafög the more money your parents make, so even the state expects parents to provide financial support if they have the means.
Agreed, I don’t know what the other commenter is talking about. Apparently we live in completely different bubbles. In my experience, it’s the norm to receive at least some support by the parents through university or young adulthood. Not only that, parents are legally required to support their children until they have finished their education, which includes university or vocational training (it’s a bit more complicated than that, age plays a role and whether you drop out and start again, but the point still stands).
Many people I know lived with their parents, temporarily or completely, well after 20. Some got cars from their family, some got furniture or appliances.
I’m shocked by most of the comments in this thread and the commenter is about the only person I can relate to. After living in a few countries and jumping around income levels a bit then I think the commenter grew up in a low economic class and most of the commenters come from a more privileged economic class.
Like, read some of these comments again and imagine you’re a parent with no money, you’d feel like a piece of shit if these comments were some sort of universal truth. Some people will say you shouldn’t bring anyone up in the world if you’re in that position but that has a really quick logical flaw: Think about your parents, then their parents, and eventually you’ll find someone that “shouldn’t have had children” and that basically means either the human race doesn’t exist or the right to have children is only deserved to the privileged.
I know that I grew up in a very privileged bubble and I get that not everyone is in a position to financially support their children through university (the inadequate support through Bafög, mentioned in other comments here, in Germany is a whole other topic).
My point is more that almost every family I know, even the less privileged ones, did what they could to help their children. Even if there is not much you can give that’s the complete opposite of cutting them off as soon as they finish school.
Yeah, after scanning more I liked this comment:
https://lemmy.world/comment/20129966
To the extent they are able, relative to their need. You are clearly far more able than a lot of parents who aren’t well off, like you
I just think some of the comments have “to the extent they’re able” being very privileged economically in a way that can also put down a lot of people less well off.
I’m not sure I completely agree that out by 18 is cutting them off completely. That said, I chose to leave when I was 17 (for university somewhere else on government assistance) and my younger brother became a live at home alcoholic that would get our younger siblings drunk on school nights and cause other issues… so I probably have an unconventional interpretation.
What is Bafög?
Something like a state scholarship, but everyone whose parents don’t make a lot of money qualify. You have to pay some of it back, but only half or 10k, whatever is lower, and with zero interest and only after you make more than a certain amount. It is, unfortunately, oftentimes not enough to live in more expensive cities like Munich, Hamburg and these days, Berlin.
It’s basically a financial support programme by the government for students. Students get some money each month, half of which is an interest-free loan and the other half a grant. It can be up to about 1000€ monthly, but if you have wealthy parents it can also be 0€.
It is part of a system where everyone gets a xhance to study. If your partents can’t afford to pay for you tongo to university then the state will pay out bafög as described by another comment. If you request Bafög but your parrents make enough money to put you through uni the state will force the parrents to pay, or at least to pay back the state for the Bafög it gives to the kid.
As a Norwegian i fully support zero. However, I think it depends a lot on the society you live in. Ideally the child learns how to fend for themselves, but if it meant a high probability of serious complications maybe no. For example if breaking a leg puts you into life altering debt
As an American, the idea of cutting kids off at 18, demand that they figure out how to pay their own $15k/year college tuition, 20k rent, and (obviously) forego healthcare, with at best entry-level job skills, feels like child abuse.
So much this. We’re paying for our son’s tuition, car, car insurance and health insurance while he lives with us and goes to culinary school. After he graduates, we will wean him off as he gets a job. He will remain on our health insurance until 26.
Danish person here, I reckon it also helps a lot that our education is free in the Nordics, and public transport is so good we don’t need to be given a car.
Yah, there are both cultural and societal elements to be considered. In US, the socialized safety net is basically nonexistent, while in Norway, Denmark and Germany (countries from other comments), it’s doing very well. Thus both mean that you can achieve different things with different levels of struggle and that “failure” has a very different meaning.
There is also the component of what the parents can offer. If economic support would be of little help, of social change the landscape, if they are able to do it, and so forth. A first gen college student will not get much useful advice from their parents, a second gen could get really useful guidance.
Legally german parents have to support their children till 27
Only if they are unable to care for themselves and do not qualify for subsidies/grants.
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It’s not free in every region, but it’s still practically free when compared to some countries
You having the finances to afford this is largely the reason you’re able to do this. Others likely don’t have the finances to do so, so they need assistance from their children. Most Americans are not able to afford what you’re doing (like, even for themselves, if we’re being honest, let alone for their children), so I would suggest you withhold judgement.
That’s unfathomable to you because you are in a very privileged position in society. Especially right now the vast majority of people are struggling to take care of themselves let alone an adult child. You must not only be privileged, but completely sheltered from the reality that the majority of people face. You’ve chosen to live in a high income are and only socialize with high income people. The posts you see online are a small taste of the regular world. Every parent wishes they could help their children as much as you have. But don’t be surprised if every time your kid has a huge financial issue that they come to you to solve it, you’ve taken away pretty much every struggle a young adult typically has to deal with.
Those stupid poor people should just be born rich.
My parents helped through college, and then I went out on my own. The help was still available, though. In my early 30’s, I moved back in with them because I had taken a job in the town where they lived. It was supposed to be temporary, but they saw that my financial situation needed them to step in, so they offered to let me stay and pay them a small rent (basically to cover bills and food). That was a huge help! 2-years later and I was mostly debt free (only student loans and a small car loan left), and taking a new job further away from them.
Long story short, I think parents should help when they can, and if the situation warrants it. There’s something to be said for letting your kids fail on their own. They learn more than you can teach them that way. But, while it’s good to help them, it’s also important that they recognize the help they’ve received. Knowing that outside help got them where they are is a Good Thing. It helps make them more empathetic to others who maybe don’t have the same support system.
ETA: the student loans were very low interest rate, back when that was a thing.
As much as is reasonable, until your kids are able to financially support themselves.
Obviously, not everybody is going to be able to do everything, and many of those that can shouldn’t, but if it wasn’t for the support I received as an adult, I don’t think I would have made it.
That being said, my younger sister got easily three times the amount of financial support that I did, and she’s still a shiftless lazy do-nothing loser, so not everybody will actually benefit from it, but if your kids can make it and you can afford it, you should as long as they need it.
Everyone I know who was raised like this is an ungrateful horrible person.
Litereally have met so many people like this who get angry their parents didnt’ give them more. Blows my mind how ungrateful, bitter, and miserable they are. The entitlement of grown ass adults who are finanically independent on their parents until they make like 250K+ is insane. I dated a girl once who was bitter her parents only gave her 50,000 for her graduate present. My graduation present was a handshake and 50K of debt.
But what do i know, i paid for my own life since i was 15 years old. I live in a different planet that the wealthy who pretend they aren’t wealthy and yet can spend a few million supporting their children.
I have a 22-year-old son. I bought him a house and a car, I pay for his university tuition
I think the tricky part to navigate is how much is too much. The sentence above at first glance, sounds like too much, but I’m willing to acknowledge that just because I could never afford to do all of that for my kids, doesn’t necessarily make it too much. Different situations require different amounts of help.
At 22, your kid should be figuring out the world. Studying, working, learning how to pay bills, do their taxes, all the grown up stuff. As long as your kid is learning these skills and will be able to function on their own after graduation, then I don’t see any problem with what you’ve done to help them, but, if you were to stop supporting them and they weren’t able to do any of these things on their own, you’ve essentially “used pay to win and boosted them to max level without letting them play the tutorial.”
You made them, you are responsible. It’s that easy. If your kids need support at 30, 40, 50 then you should support them.
To the extent they are able, relative to their need. You are clearly far more able than a lot of parents who aren’t well off, like you.
What did your parents do for you, OP?
I certainly couldn’t afford to support my kids that much financially, you must be very well off! But I did always do more for mine in some ways, than my mom did for us (and less in some other ways). My mom did get us cars and covered the insurance, she saved some money for us for school but in K-12 just sent us to bad schools because she thought it was better to not let them get even worse by putting us in private (there were no good state options back then), so I didn’t get much in the way of academic education until college. She kicked me out at 17 since I wasn’t in high school and not ready for college so I was homeless for awhile. Tough love in some ways, I guess.
I worked to get my kids in better schools K-12, to find a good fit for each kid, and warned them that I wasn’t going to be able to do much toward university. So the academically inclined among them got into schools that either did sliding scale, only charged what we could pay, or state schools (the state now covers tuition for high achievers who jump through a few hoops) and lived at home or took loans for their other costs.
I do let them (and their girlfriend or boyfriend actually) live at home until they get on their feet financially, so far that seems to work fine, it’s an enormous discount for them not paying rent, so they can save enough to get started.
I cannot get them cars or pay the insurance in this current economy, and couldn’t for the first two because the insurance alone would increase monthly cost by $600 and that certainly is not in the budget. My penultimate child pays her own insurance and I let her use my car to go to school, because my office is so close I don’t need the car, made her bus before but then she said she’d drop off the high schooler on her way so that worked out.
Basically - my main constraints are financial but I don’t think I’d be inclined to provide as much as you have. If I could get them cars I probably would have, though.
You are doing good
It’s a little unfair to compare how much parents should support kids a generation ago versus now, wealth inequality is completely different now. Things like paying for your own car yourself at 22 is enough to perpetuate a debt trap for most of your adult life. Unless you get really lucky with a lot of money to start your life young, it’s much harder to get ahead now than even 20 years ago.
all this does is increase wealth inequality.
because poor kids get fucked, rich kids get to start life with trust funds.
it would be more equal if rich people actually made their kids go into debt.
Not many parents could provide that to their children. Many are not far from not affording their own car and house. I can’t fanthom having the ability to do all that for a child so there is no way I can really give a good answer. You do what you can but you can but that is pretty much letting them live with you if they can’t get a place of their own. Invest in a bussiness??? Buy a car??? I would like to refresh our vehicle and so maybe they can have the old one if we don’t need to sell it to cover the purchase of the replaccement.
I feel happy for your child that they were able to begin adult life so incredibly supported. I wish I could do the same for my kids, and I wish the same had been done for me.
I think one big problem with this is some people end up very entitled. They think it’s easy to “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps” when in reality it’s not even possible for most unsupported folks. As long as your kid knows to be humble, that they only got to where they are by the welfare of inheritance, I think what you’re doing is great. They shouldn’t feel bad or guilty about your help, they just shouldn’t judge any choices made by anyone who didn’t have the luxury of all that wonderful support.
I worked three jobs in college, and big surprise I burned out and dropped out with big mental health issues. I earned a full ride, but my jobs didn’t fully cover my food and rent, so I ended up with loans just to get my AA. No bachelor’s degree, and definitely no medical degree. I’m not complaining, just pointing out it’s not that I didn’t work as hard as your kid, or that I wasn’t as smart. I just didn’t have the freedom of choice your child was afforded. I congratulate you for offering that to them.
