In dry bureaucratic language, the memo outlines a plan to revoke citizenship from the children of both immigrants who lack permanent legal status and many lawful residents, including visa holders, Dreamers, and asylum-seekers. It envisions intrusive federal review of parents’ papers—quite possibly in the hospital, before or shortly after birth—to gauge the newborn’s legal status. And it paves the way for people who spend their entire lives in the United States to be deported to countries in which they’ve never stepped foot, or to be condemned to the limbo of statelessness.
I wonder how Marco Rubio feels about this. Neither of his parents were U.S. citizens at the time of his birth in the U.S… Perhaps he’ll be deported to Cuba?
Logically, this combined with their insistence that they can revoke legal status means that no one’s citizenship is guaranteed. Everyone born in the US is descended from people who weren’t citizens. And those who went through a process to become citizens can apparently have that yanked away if the current administration get its way.
If I were the next president and had to try and undo the damage these fascists are inflicting, I’d start by deporting the bastards behind this shit in all three branches of government, starting with the the Supreme Court. Maybe just drop them all off in Antarctica.
Why Antarctica? What’s wrong with Sudan or El Salvador? 😜
Too hot!
Hmmm never thought being Native American could be so advantageous till now…
Hope you live and work within a reservation. It are lucky enough to detour you back to one if you don’t. They’re coming for anyone that disagrees with them.
SO, If I’m descended from Native Americans AND Canadians, does that mean I’d get deported to Canada, or would being descended from Native people protect me from deportation even if that means I’m not “lily white”?
Rules for thee… not for me.
Selective enforcement. Well who knows, they’ll have AI crawling the data
My first thought was Nick Fuentes.
Regarding Lil’ Marco, I wish they’d deport him and his fascist bootlicking family to Cuba
Stop pretending that’s how laws work, abd fucking gight.
Please.
This gets my ‘I’m too scared to read’ award for the day
It’s pretty vile. I don’t blame you.
Read it and prepare to fight it. These cowards expect us to cower and hide. Resist.
You are most correct. We can no longer look away from the atrocities and hope they stop. Today all decent folks must be soldiers for humanity Thank you comrade
And by soldier for humanity, you mean valiant protestor for representative democracy (the best kind)?
Let’s come together and use our words. Meeting violence with violence only breeds more violence. The only way to stop violence is to ask.
You had me in the first half, ngl
Thanks, most people seem incapable of catching on despite how ridiculous I’m having to get.
Yup, historically fascist regimes have only been stopped by people asking nicely.
Ask, “What about the Epstein Files?” as the first volley.
I mean, so far that’s all you’ve been doing.
So what you hang out with fenrirlll? How long have you personally known him and how he comports his life?
Talking about Americans in general, not this guy personally. Who knows, maybe he’s thrown a few punches. I feel like we’d have heard about him if he had, though.
Why does he or anyone have to throw punches. Do you feel nonviolent protest is useless?
At this point? Absolutely. You seem to think you’re still dealing with Bush-era fascism.
Does not matter if its north korean fascism. I can’t stop you but dissuading one type of protest is not a good way to help another. There will be all kinds of protest and they do aid each other at the least by spreading out government forces. I did not protest during the bush era so it has to be this record breaking level to get the levels we saw with no kings and will see this weekend.
Wait… I thought these morons said life begins at conception. Shouldn’t citizenship be determined at that time, then?
They can’t even get their own story straight.
Almost like they never actually cared and were just lying to manipilate you, or something!
Life begins at the moment of insertion.
Citizenship begins when your skin passes the paint swatch test.
Citizenship begins when your skin passes the paint swatch test.
Plenty of Latinos and black folks in ICE, but go off
Oh my sweet summer child
I’m curious what you think the significance of that is?
You’ve never heard of race traitors before?
Or internalized racism if you want to be more polite
Normally I try to be polite, but it’s difficult when discussing the enforcement arm of a fascist regime.
The one that’s expanding beyond all supposed needs and is clearly planning to be the American Gestapo?
Fair. Wonder why someone would give them the benefit of the doubt!
Useful idiots. There were jews with the Brownshirts too.
If not for double standards, Republicans would have no standards at all.
The hypocrisy is baked into their ideology. They don’t need to be consistent, it is all about “winning” to them. Words mean nothing, except as a method to “win”.
Words mean nothing, except as a method to “win”.
This is literally how demons are in Frieren.
I don’t know what any of that that means, but I was paraphrasing Sartre:
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
By “anti-Semites” Sartre is of course referring to the Nazis and their sympathisers (it was written in 1944).
I feel like that’s giving them too much credit, The demons in Frieren aren’t immoral they’re just ammoral, they straight up don’t have a concept of morality or empathy except from an external point of view as this strange human behaviour they can manipulate. Fascist on the other than are human and do understand morality and empathy and then choose to ignore and weaponize them anyway, they have so much more malice than a fictional demon.
Now you are getting it.
With this all out attack on American Citizens. It makes me wonder, if we’re their enemy, who are their allies? And also why aren’t more Heritage Foundation buildings and Republican Offices on fire?
Because the people that hate republicans are usually moral people and wreaking havoc and mayhem isn’t something we usually do.
You’re going to have to because walking around with signs isn’t going to stop this.
What about a strongly worded sign with like eight bullet points?
But that won’t make people on the internet chuckle
Psh, you haven’t seen my signs!
Their allies? White Racists, neo-Nazis, everyone who wants a dictatorship and the Russians. All of them are worthless shits.
Don’t forget the ultra rich, as much as the ultra rich would like you to forget them.
Hmm who has well documented ties to this administration and would be happy with the downfall of America as a world power? This is one I’ll have to Putin the ol’ think tank for a while
Their allies are white white supremacists who don’t consider you people and because Americans have a severe case of invertebrate-osis respectively.
Well, ask yourself. Why haven’t you done any of these things you’re asking.
Did you ask yourself why I would post those activities on a public forum first?
The courage of your convictions, a call to action for others, leading by example.
There are many reasons you might decide to.
Look, you seem to be Australian. If you’d like to join 50501 and dive from there I won’t stop you. But I get it. You are urging me because I am here. Believe me, there is preparation and movement, Portland is steeped in madness they are resisting so hard, we started late in all states, but its there. Far more than any socials, including Lemmy, show.
I’m not urging you to do shit, tbh.
But I’m tired of all the hand-wringing from people who are waiting for “someone else” to do something.
I’m sorry I didn’t realise you’ve already torched a dozen wasps nests I didn’t know about.
You dont even live here. Go hand wring about your laws that allowed Collective Shout to fuck adult games the planet over.
What the fucks your problem dude?
Fragile fuck.
Because Americans are cowards
What’s his plan to release the Epstein files?
This is the actual point
DO NOT LET HIM DISTRACT US FROM THE EPSTEIN FILES WITH THIS CRAZY PLAN
I think this is the game to watch…the epstien files will just be entertaining, Trump is doing all of this clutching pearls stuff over the EF to get a bunch of other stuff passed…they’ve had a bunch of time to doctor the EF . When finally released it will be a shell of actual facts, hell my bets on Greta thurnburg being a client.
You saw it already.
Get progressively more unhinged because people haven’t stopped asking for them?
As is now tradition.
It sounds like he’s trying to recreate Epstein’s empire himself. Why else would they want to arrest babies?
This crap has to be part of Krasnov’s mission to weaken and dismantle the US.
The entire developed world has fertility rates well below population maintenance levels. Countries are going to need to attract immigrants to keep their work forces and tax bases stable, never mind growing them.
The USA is going to have problems attracting immigrants for decades if not generations, unless some crazy shit unexpectedly changes for the better with our government.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/total-fertility-rate
Or we could shift to systems that don’t require us to be cancer.
Funny how that’s almost always relevant in these messed up situations.
But this might transcend that a bit. If we shifted to a decent system that put humans first, we would still need agriculture at the same huge scale even if it was managed by communities and co-ops. Many jobs in that sector that are filled by cheap undocumented migrants are already ones that Americans won’t do. I could see there still being an issue getting the work done.
Of course, if individuals were more involved in the sourcing of their food and even worked outside on some gardening, it would benefit them greatly. We’d want whole education campaigns to help with that.
still require agriculture
Im talking about the ‘must always grow’ shit. Yes we still need food
immigrants
Fuck borders. Why? What’s the benefit of them to actual people? They’re just problems. Let people ho where they want.
people shouldn’t be alienated from their food
Agree.
fuck corporate (thing)
Agree
Let people ho where they want.
Preserving this amazing typo in case you decide to “fix” it.
Spotted it, decided not to.
Here’s a wacky idea: if Americans won’t do it, Americans don’t get to eat. Let’s see how long it takes for things to change…
So yeah, many people could use that kind of tough love and reconnecting with the basic realities of life. It would legitimately improve the mental and physical health of the population too.
Unfortunately the conservatives have already claimed the strategy of starving the young and the infirm because their parents or caretakers aren’t good enough worker bees.
Or physically can’t.
This country is also way too big and its climates are way too varied to support its population on small subsistence farms all year long.
We could do it that way a century and a half ago, but even then we were reliant on industrialized farming and food production.
People will still come to USA. Even if trump discontinues birth right citizenship people from third world countries will still want to come to USA whether illegally or legally. The thing is by denying citizenship to immigrants trump will be able to create an army of cheap labours and companies will pay him a lot more for those labourers. Because if you are illegal immigrant and want work to help your family at home you will be willing to do anything. That’s what trump and his friends want. They will hire cheap labour, pay very less, exploit excessively and then escape from the clutches of the law.
This is enlightening on this dark, fascist move. It’s a bureaucratic way to implement slavery. Keep these humans on a knife’s edge to control them. Deport them or threaten to deport them at any time, to a foreign or domestic concentration camp where a corporation can leech off their family or the government to pay for their incarceration. Krasnov the Donvict indeed. This gets more dystopian the more I think about it. Their greed is an endless abyss of depravity. It’s like they’re controlled by a person with the human values of a diabolical pedo.
I disagree. As it ramps up, it will become more and more risky and less and less people will want to emigrate especially as economic opportunities lie elsewhere.
Sure, the US will have cheap workers, but high skilled migrants will prefer other countries. This is not just going to hit farm workers after all.
Robots will be mainstream soon. Humans won’t be needed.
Robots are great for situations that don’t require adaptations. Anything that requires novel choices will require humans for the foreseeable future.
AI will progress in that future.
We’re gonna burn up the planet with energy use for AI before that happens
All that coal was created from trees, which are younger than sharks. Nature wasn’t burning then, will not be burning soon. Nature will survive, it’s the industrial farming that will be difficult.
I thought so too but with the warming trends we are experiencing at unprecedented rates the planet does not have time to adapt as well. We are now looking at a possible Venus scenario if this warming continues at this rate. If we look closely we are still increasing our load on the planet and thus increasing the speed of the cycle. Meaning all flora would not have the thousands of years to adapt to the warming as it has previously in earth’s history.
We may just kill every live thing on the entire planet because of our greed.
There are always algues and fish unless we go out of our way and poison the ocean.
But I can’t imagine that no plant will adapt or is already adapted. Some palm trees, some weed will survive.
Eventually, but quickly enough.
There will always be some who will get their thrills off abusing actual humans and not robots. Pedo types, like those names of power hiding in the Epstein files.
Alternately: hollowing out our educational systems will diminish human capabilities in this realm
It’s a ten year race against China. Education won’t have much of an influence.
Not the stuff we have now. True AI is still a long way off.
Ah, the perfect reminder that people on Lemmy can be just as big of dipshits as people on reddit were.
Do you just not like AI or do you have a reason to believe that there won’t be significant progress?
Not OP but out current implementations of LLMs and similar models are just fundementally incapable of true reasoning, we can keep pumping money into them with diminishing returns but its never going to turn into AGI. Maybe not the best example but LLMs are like bronze, pretty good but no matter how much better you get at bronze working its just never going to allow for the things that could be done with more advanced metalurgy. Right now the big names are pouring money into bronze and no one is figuring out how to smelt iron.
By smelting bronze one learns about ores and sooner or later discovers iron ore.
The processes matter, the data, the teams.
Using imprecise terms like AI make it impossible to know. Do you mean than machine learning/neural networks can make robots adaptive enough to pick oranges and butcher chickens, or do you think LLMs are going to get “smart” enough to become AGI?
Both. Many resources are put into the former which inevitably will lead to somebody having an insight for the latter.
None of that explains how they plan to get around the Constitution, though…which is very clear in its interpretation.
Simple. Ignore it and own enough judges that any cases get killed.
Woo fascism. 😐
In my mind that would open the door to forgetting some other constitutionally defined things. Like, who is a President.
He’s already broken the constitution like a dozen times, and he’s still president. Fascists do not relinquish power without force.
“Rules for thee, not for me!”
“What are you going to do about it?”.
Just like everything else he does
In June, however, the Supreme Court expressly permitted the government to begin “developing and issuing public guidance about the executive’s plans to implement” Trump’s order. Acting on that decision, an immigration agency released the first stage of its “implementation plan” last Friday.
From the article. This is basically their plan for once the Supreme Court allows it.
The court didn’t actually rule that Trump’s changes to birthright citizenship are legal, they only ruled that the lower courts couldn’t issue nationwide injunctions to stop him.
Is that functionally different in your mind? Perhaps it is slightly different if we assume they’re going to stop here and not take it any further but that seems obviously untrue so I’m not sure why the distinction matters.
It’s different because the court is still likely to have to rule on the actual problem eventually. They might get around to ruling that Trump’s changes are unconstitutional, but they have this weird idea that the “harm” Trump would suffer by having his probably-unconstitutional plans put on hold while courts sort out their legality is somehow greater than the harm suffered by all the people who will be affected if the plans go ahead.
This is like that time when the supreme court had to hold deliberations on whether the local police in an active shooter situation could take the gun away from the shooter, and potentially violate the shooter’s second amendment rights. They didn’t rule on it right away, but issued a ruling that lower courts could not rule on the constitutionality of disarming the active shooter, and had to allow the shooter to continue shooting until the second amendment implications could be considered by the supreme court. Then they went into recess.
Edit: None of this happened
That’s like the difference between banning abortion nationwide and just allowing states to ban it
That doesn’t explain how they plan to get around the 14th amendment, though. It just outlines what they plan to do, once they have.
The Supreme Court, obviously. They will just explain how the wording is confusing and doesn’t actually mean birthright citizenship the way we typically do. Fact that they told Trump to start issuing guidance tells me they are going to tailor their ruling to that guidance.
Actually, the way they worded that decision made it sound like they wanted to hear how they would go about doing this…“legally”. Meaning, what rationale could they come up with, that wouldn’t violate the 14th amendment. They are willing to entertain arguments to that effect, but aren’t just going to sign off on a direct violation of the Constitution.
This latest outline from the Trump administration doesn’t do that. It just elaborates on what they would do, if they were allowed to proceed, anyway. But it says nothing about how they would actually circumvent the 14th amendment.
You’re forgetting something: laws and constitutions don’t matter unless those in charge of enforcing it agree with it.
Enforcing laws, the Constitution, judgements from judges - all that is done by the executive.
When there’s a fascist corrupt executive function, you get selective enforcement and convenient ignoring of parts of the law, serving the double effect of 1) keeping the corrupt executive in power and in control and 2) discrediting the institutions, furthering the corruption.
Yay.
And at some point, you will also get civil war. It’s one thing for Trump to use legal slight-of-hand to look for loopholes in the Constitution…but it’s another thing entirely for him to simply violate it.
There is nothing in the legal framework of the United States that allows any president to simply overrule a Constitutional amendment. The 2nd amendment exists to protect the others from an autocratic tyrant.
it’s another thing entirely for him to simply violate it.
Is it? The American people have to actually stand up and defend their democracy. I’m not sure that’ll ever happen.
Or you get a descent into a dictatorship that it’s almost impossible to organize against. Civil war is not inevitable, and I don’t see Americans being particularly eager to fight one. And the further the country slides down the dictatorship slope, the less likely it is that you can raise any kind of effective resistance.
If that’s the case, then things will eventually lead to another world war. A country as powerful as the US deciding to go full-fascist, will not be tolerated by other world powers for long.
Lmao no. Nobody cares as long as America doesn’t knock on their door first. You think Europe will declare war on America for enacting a MAGA holocaust, let alone put in enough effort to have even the slightest hope of success? And in that case, do you think China would do literally anything but watch and pit both sides against each other while they profit and maybe invade Taiwan? Geopolitics isn’t that simple.
And you think the US won’t attack one of their allies, at some point? They’ve already said they would if they don’t get what they want from Canada, Mexico, Panama, and Greenland. Any one of those potential conflicts would lead to wider war.
Nope, none of them will. Canada could become a proxy war between Europe and America, but I fully believe that if push comes to shove they’ll be thrown under the bus. I mean, have you seen how Europe has treated Ukraine since 2022? As for the rest, those are non-starters. Mexico and Panama have nothing to do with Europe, and there’s no way Britain or Germany are sending troops over Greenland. America would need to attack European home soil for such a thing to happen, and America has self-sufficiency in holocaustable untermensch.
Seems to me that the Western countries are busy trying to appease the fascists, when they’re not heading full tilt towards fascism themselves. What happens when we have a fascist USA, a fascist Russia, an authoritarian China, a fascist India, and a Europe that’s in large part fascist with residual packets of neoliberalism? Will Brazil and some African countries fight them all? Or will the next war be between the fascist world and the world that’s controlled by China?
I think you are mistaking “conflict avoidance” with “appeasement”. The rest of the western world is trying to avoid open conflict with those countries…the US included. If the US, Russia or China were to attack any of them, though…there would be war. And the so-called “fascist world” are not capable of remaining functionally united. They’ll stab each other in the back as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
The 2nd amendment exists to protect the others from an autocratic tyrant.
Americans have been saying that for centuries, but I don’t see them taking any action.
So who’s gonna fight the civil war?
The Constitution is just a piece of paper with words in it. We need people to enforce the Constitution with political power.
It’s only a piece of paper with words in it, if no one is willing to stand up and defend it. We the People can enforce it.
Conservatism: where suffering and pain is the purpose.
It’s become a cult of evil.
Become?
Literally the people who founded the ideology directly refered to poor people as dirt/dirty. Conservatism is a cancer on the world and anyone who supports is just a broken, anti-social fuckwad and/or deeply stupid. Just a load of obvious evil.
Actually i think thry ate chocolate out silver goblets in fiume
It is the ideology of bullies and I’ve devoted my life to destroying them
Becoming?
checks past century of notes
I can’t argue with this view anymore
Under these rules, Trump himself isn’t a citizen
And his, ahem, ‘wife’ is definitely not.
Here’s another thing to think about… This is another distraction because the obese tangerine is on the Epsteins kiddie fiddling list. He’s a convicted rapist and rapes children.
Hitler didn’t have blonde hair either
Back to Oompa Loompa Land he goes.
Can you explain that please? I just read the document and I don’t see why this is true.
His mother was an immigrant with questionable citizenship at the time of his birth.
And his father? Because it also says clearly that as long as one parent is a green card holder or citizen that citizen ship is granted.
His father is questionable as well since he had immigrant parents on both sides.
Thank you 🙏🙏
Wow, what an “efficient” way to ruin people’s lives. For no reason but the cruelty itself. The UN list of human rights has been ignored completely by most, if not all countries. But everybody is supposed to be entitled to a nationality. Otherwise, where the hell are you going to live? A small uninhabited unowned island? Antarctica? So, in a disturbingly normal turn of events, the government has infringed upon its residents human rights.
They could join the tech- and cryptobros on their libertarian dream cruiseships.
I don’t think most women could be desperate enough to join Elon’s harem. But then again, plenty of women in significantly less dire situations have in fact joined his harem.
As their slaves and concubines!
I don’t understand why this would be a massive problem in the USA. My country (the netherlands) doesn’t have birthright citizenship and it hasn’t caused any issues. Why would it be different in the USA?
The Netherlands has citizenship for people born in the country while their primary residence is in the Netherlands which is pretty similar. It’s important because it was outright guaranteed in the 14th Amendment, which was written to make sure that formerly enslaved African-Americans had a nationality. The country also has an obscenely large and corrupt deportment force, ICE. The country has an extremely long history of immigration, which continues to this day. As far as I know, there’s a lot fewer people moving to the Netherlands, far fewer entering from non-European countries.
That is not entirely true: https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/nederlandse-nationaliteit/nederlander-worden-geboorte-erkenning
The point that takes this as topic is: “Op de dag van uw geboorte woonden u en uw vader of moeder in Nederland. En uw opa of oma woonde op de dag dat uw vader of moeder werd geboren ook in Nederland.”
Which translates to
“On the day you were born, you and your father or mother lived in the Netherlands. And your grandfather or grandmother lived on the day your father or mother was born in the Netherlands.”
So it’s not as simple as you put it, there’s an extra step there in the form of a grandparent.
Oh, that makes sense. I probably misread the site. Mb. Anyways, the US is hypothetically supposed to be inclusive of different cultures and easy enough to immigrate to. It’s not. It’a had better moments though.
This horrific and vile, this is why I wish we could’ve gotten a different outcome with the election. More horrible news to add onto an ever-growing pile of shit. I wish my mom would’ve chosen to divorce my dad and took us to Germany…Fleeing this rotting nation would’ve been a boon!
The UK and Australia have been infringing upon trans rights and free speech recently. Makes me think this might be a return to the Western world’s roots. Hopefully, Ireland will be left alone for once, I can move there, and become an alcoholic.
Yes, UK and Aussie Terfs have been trying to disenfranchise transmen and women for a long while, unfortunately J. K. Rowling gave them a nasty opening to make their cruel work stick. I do hope for a revolution against these egregious acts, as American ancestors fought to make the English fuck right off. Ireland will likely fall to a similar fate, as there is a rise of anti-trans rhetoric in that nation too. I don’t think many places are going to be safe in the world. Barring communities who give a shit about their fellow humans, of course!
Any idea what the process is to move to Ireland (from the States)?
No idea. Just something I kind of want to do. It’s probably easier if you have more recent Irish ancestors, speak Irish, have any connection to Ireland whatsoever. I have none of those things unfortunately. It’s just one of my top options. I’d prefer a place where most people speak English as a first language because languages are hard, and I only speak that and abysmal German. Good luck with getting there!
But we saved Gaza by not electing Kamala. Didn’t we? The internet told me so.
“Why did Kamala/Biden/The Democratic Party do this to us?” - so much of the dialogue, even fucking now.
Kamala’s only public address since gleefully handing power to the fascist party has been to demand the release of idf soldiers held by hamas lmao
Gleeful? SMH, what do you expect
herBiden to do? Latch onto the resolute desk until the secret service pull him away kicking and screaming? If you don’t believe in peaceful transition, you’re as bad as Jan 6ers.This is ironic right lmao
That you compartmentalize people calling you out as “must be ironic” is telling.
Brother if you think that was a call-out you are hilariously pathetic
I asked if it was ironic because it was so braindead I assumed you were making a joke, the fact you typed that out in all seriousness is sad.
And now we see the attacks. Also telling.
Hey. I got an email from “her” asking for money to fight Trump. Just give more money and they will fight for you!
Imagine having the gall to require a raise everytime you’re being asked to do your already obscenely overpaid job. Boggles the mind. Especialy since they’re already wealthy beyond comprehension.
Wowzers, she’s more of a shitlib than I thought, gawd dayum.
Trump just released Miller’s plan
Italian plumbers need to pay that cucked pedophile a visit
That would be 🕶️ super
YEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHH!!!
So if as an American, you were to lose your documentation, unless you are lily white, you can be contained by ICE.
Be scared.
I see withholding licenses and registrations as a tactic pigs are going to use in the future.
No, ICE can still detain you if you’re lily white. Race is only an excuse to get started; they will deport dissidents with this eventually.
The immigration courts happen to be directly ran by the executive branch. They’re firing any judge who isn’t onboard.
No not your documentation. Your parent’s documentation
Yeah, but also for most things requiring proof of citizenship in the US, people generally use their birth certificate or a document, like a passport or real ID, that was originally obtained with a birth certificate. If birthright citizenship is no longer a thing, how would you even provide documentation for your parents’ citizenship if they aren’t naturalized citizens? Can’t rely on their birth certificates because that no longer matters and now I have to prove my grandparents were/are citizens to prove my parents are citizens and on and on. It doesn’t even make sense.
It makes complete sense when you understand that the goal isn’t to deport “illegal immigrants” (whatever that’s supposed to mean), but anyone they want (and that “deport” effectively means disappear).
Your only defence is to be a member (in good standing) of their group (and only as long as you remain in good standing).
Otherwise you’re fair game.
And there’s nothing you can legally do about it (except leave the country before they get to you, but then you risk getting caught as you cross the border to leave), because it’s intentionally impossible for you to follow the law.
Thank you for so clearly explaining how an autocrat works. Dictators use the premise and facade of laws for legitimacy but never actually care to follow them. The Donvict loves autocrats like Putin and Kim. The fact that donOLD’s grandfather was an immigrant is irrelevant because he’s the king, er, prez or whatever, and decides that the rules are for other people and not him.
“illegal immigrants” (whatever that’s supposed to mean)
Attempting to violate constitutional law through executive order is vile, and all law enforcement should be in uniform and identifiable (and held to higher standards than non-law enforcement) so I am completely against everything Trump is doing, but let’s not pretend illegal immigration isn’t a thing as a knee jerk in the other direction.
Illegal immigration is crossing the border without legally passing through customs to establish a legal right to be in that country, or overstaying your legal right to be there (Visa). People who are in a country illegally are rightfully subject to deportation back to wherever they are citizens. Pretending otherwise just helps more moderate people buy into the propaganda and let’s the ratchet work more easily.
We are all rightly complaining about Trump violating the law, so how is it also not a problem for people to violate immigration law? This is the problem I have that leaves me stuck in the middle.
Sanctuary cities that flaunt immigration law are, while not just as bad, still bad. When Trump (lies) and says he only wants to target people here illegally who commit crimes, and a sanctuary city prevents law enforcement cooperation with ICE, that just adds to the narrative of felon illegal immigrants and then you have ICE going after those people at home and grabbing everyone around them as by catch. This only helps the Trump.
how is it also not a problem for people to violate immigration law
Because they don’t give a flying fuck about whether the people they’re disappearing have violated any laws or not.
They’ve disappeared citizens, they’ve disappeared people following the legal process to immigrate, without letting them finish, they’ve disappeared tourists who didn’t even have any intention to immigrate.
They’re fascists. They don’t care about the law. It’s just an excuse to do what they want. Marketing to attract gullible racist idiots to their cause.
But, even if that wasn’t enough, even if you don’t care about their real motives, even if you don’t care whether the law is good or not or how it’s applied, as I said in my previous answer they’re designing their new laws in such a way that it’s impossible for anyone not to violate them.
Even if you were to always carry your parents’ and grandparents’ birth certificates on you, what about your great grandparents?
Everyone in the USA is an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants! (Sure, some got there long enough ago that they were probably the first to arrive and can therefore be called natives, but they’re the wrong colour, so they don’t matter and will be disappeared anyway.)
Ironically, the only people who’ll be able to prove they’re in the country legally (not that it matters, since, as I said, the fascists don’t care) will be those with a green card, properly stamped foreign passport, or similar documents.
Making laws impossible to follow and then applying them arbitrarily to achieve their own goals and not the laws’ has been standard fascist fare since fascism was invented (and, before that, standard autocratic authoritarian fare).
Watching fascists do their thing and pointing at the law and saying that their victims deserved it or should have known better is disingenuous at best, almost certainly malicious, and definitely monstrous.
And I’ll finish with this:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles.
From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!Now, I’m not an American, I don’t care about American nationalism or pride, but this is what America, the USA, was supposed to be, what it was supposed to mean. A nation of immigrants, welcoming liberty seeking refugees to her shores. A beacon of freedom and democracy to which everyone could aspire.
Of course, it never really was that. But it was a nice thought.
Something is clear, though; anyone justifying the current government’s actions in the name of defending America, or American ideals or culture is either extremely ignorant or an hypocrite. And they’re most definitely un-American.
And I’ll finish with this
Ah, no, wait, sorry, there’s also this:
This is the problem I have that leaves me stuck in the middle.
There’s no middle ground with fascists.
You’re either actively against them, or you’re part of the problem.
Maybe you’re one of them, or just a useful hateful racist idiot aiding and abetting them while you wait for your turn to be disappeared for not being fascist enough, but if you’re not fighting against them you’re contributing to their crimes against humanity.
And if you’re just a useful idiot, bear this in mind:
You won’t appease them. They won’t stop. They won’t thank you. They won’t hesitate to treat you like any other undesirable (including many who believed themselves to be part of their group). You’ll end up like any other “illegal immigrant” when your turn comes.
And if they’re not stopped, rest assured, it will come.
You’re either actively against them, or you’re part of the problem.
I’ll take this whole section generously as a nebulous “you” and not you directly calling me either “one of them or a useful hateful racist”.
Two things can both be wrong, it’s not a zero sum game between open borders and fascist police states. Treating it as such caused the Democrats to lose some amount of support base, and did contribute to Trump getting reelected. The increase in Trump support from Hispanics and other immigrant groups was partially from resentment with treating illegal immigration as equivalent to legal immigration.
Yes, the poem on the Statue of Liberty is wonderful, and should still apply as the US is and should remain a nation of immigrants. That is not the same as having open borders for anyone and everyone, and it never has been.
Two things can both be wrong
When one of those two things is fascism, the other one is irrelevant.
The difference in magnitude between how wrong one objectively is and the other might be is so cosmically vast, that any comparison is moot.
You either stop fascism, by any means necessary, or you (and everyone else) suffers the consequences.
Again, there is no possible middle ground.
There is no possible “yes, but…”.
There are no other priorities.
There’s no possible bargaining, rationalisation, justification, or argument.
Any attempt at such is either irrational or malicious, or most probably both.
When faced with an existential threat, you either do everything in your power to stop it, or you suffer its consequences, and allow everyone else to suffer them.
If you are not actively opposing fascism, you are enabling it.
You are a necessary accomplice and collaborator.
You are effectively indistinguishable from any other fascist, and equally responsible for any harm they cause.
Accept your responsibility and, if you don’t like it, stop trying to justify yourself and start doing something about it.
They deported a white guy from Norway. They have no issues deporting anybody, trust me.
“Got a quota to meet! Who can we deport today?”
To be honest, they are likely to use this against everyone they consider an enemy. Didn’t vote for Trump? Well, you’re not a citizen anymore. Get in the van.
They will steal America and imprison, kill or deport anyone who they don’t like. How many steps to fascism before enough people act?
Well, stealing land and getting rid of people they don’t like are among the core founding values of America so this tracks.
It looks Republicans want to just shuttle them around like they do with homeless people, rounding them up from red states, dumping them in blue states, and pretending they solved a problem.
Fine, let’s play this game. Trump rounds up citizens he dislikes, pretends they aren’t american citizens, ships them off to other countries who then say “these aren’t our citizens so we’re shipping them back.” It’s cruel, which he’s okay with, but also expensive because they will constantly be sent back to the US to deal with, which is expensive and the costs will only grow since there is no real plan to deal with them. Costs can be used to hurt him politically.
So what’s the point? You cant just put people in other countries, say “not it” and walk away.
Slavery. They’ll make them work for free, as if that’s not almost the case anyway. They might make 2 more cents a day to go on top of their millions a day, so who cares?
the rich: “I hate how I have most of the money instead of all of the money.”
You cant just put people in other countries, say “not it” and walk away
Republicans: “Hold my beer”
