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Yeah unfortunately that is not actually the way the law is written Bernie. Wish it was.
Short version, the president gets to deploy the military where ever he wishes (outside the US, posse comitatus etc). That includes invading a sovereign nation or raining missiles down on one.
Only congress has the power to declare a war, but the Potus gets to defacto kick off the war and then dare congress not to back him.
After it was either 60 or 90 days, I forget, congress gets to “review” the decision, the problem is they have no power other than financial if they wish to stop the war. So the only thing they can do is turn off the finances to the military, and wait for the money to run out - which is generally up to a year. They have no way of forcing the president to desist other than impeachment or cutting off the funds.
They can pass a motion, or even legislation, which the Prez can then veto, pointless. If they can muster the 2/3rds of congress they can remove him via impeachment.
Edit, spelling correction and to note that I can pull out the full details if needed - was discussed heavily on reddit a while ago
Are the generals going to refuse his orders? Is the legislative going to impeach him? Is anyone in American government going to do the job their very roles exist to do within the framework of power? What happens if he does? What’s been happening as he violates the constitution, daily? When he violates the rights protected, seemingly, by nothing but a sheet of fucking parchment?
Whose going to stop him when he tries?
It’s not that someone has to stop him, by himself Trump can scream till he’s blue in the face and there won’t be a war.
It’s that someone has to enable him to do so, follow and carry out the order, and order others to, etc. Which have to follow and carry out the order too.
Can we not pretend like this hasn’t happened numerous times in the past. The US hasn’t been in a war since WW2 and yet somehow we keep ending up killing people in other countries.
we keep ending up killing people in other countries
Excuse me, this is called “defending our interests”.
Do Vietnam and Korea not count as wars?
Or Indonesia, Laos, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Bolivia, Cambodia, Iran, Lebanon, Granada, Panama, Somalia, Bosnia, Croatia, Haiti, Congo, Iraq, Iraq again, Afghanistan, Philippines, Syria, Yemen, Somalia again, Libya, Niger, South Sudan…
Why do you let them set the narrative that a precedent of wrongdoing legitimizes future trespasses?
While offensive war is definitely wrong (I don’t personally think defending yourself is wrong however, although some will differ), none of the undeclared wars that the US has been in since WW2 have been illegal under the laws of the United States.
POTUS has the right to send in troops, Congress has the right to declare a war but if they don’t declare war that doesn’t change the fact that the POTUS is legally allowed to send troops in, particularly for UN peace keeping (ie Korea, Former Yugoslavia), but even in the absence of an international umbrella.
As per post above the US president can defacto start and run a war until congress turns off the financial taps or impeaches him, only they can declare a war, and they don’t like doing that, hence the last 80 years of defacto but undeclared wars
Bernie should be aware of the war powers act. It’s one of the worse pieces of legislation ever, but it makes the whole declare war thing largely meaningless.
The act gives a president the ability to perform military actions provided Congress is notified within 48 hours of the action happening. Then the president gets a free 60 days to do whatever without additional approval. Then there’s a further 30 days where forces should be withdrawing if there is no further congressional approval. However, that timeline doesn’t really matter, as the Supreme Court ruled under Clinton that of troops are gone by the time the case gets to them then it doesn’t really matter that the law was violated.
He should also be aware of this legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_of_2001
… since he voted for it.
It allows military actions against any country that harbours al Qaeda… and Iran does harbour al Qaeda along with any terrorist group that aligns with their “death to Israel / America” dogma.
Repealed by the House of Representatives in 2021.
I also like the American Servicemembers Protection Act, which is a 2002 federal law that basically says, “if you try to charge any U.S. soldier or official for a war crime in the International Criminal Court, we will invade the Netherlands.”
GWB : Hold mah beer.
Oh. He must not.
And you’re going to stop him, right?
“It’s illegal”
Someone remind him that the supreme court has judged that the usa president can do any crime willy nilly
Trump clearly demonstrated over decades that he is unable to not break laws, and he was arguably elected because of that. Therefore, the most democratic thing would be to let him be a dictator. 🤷
Ok, so he breaks the law, AGAIN… that’ll be how many times? And how many consequences? And how will he be punished? Who will punish him? Remember, this is an insurrectionist that the administration from 17-21 did not go after because it would have been “taken as political”. So, again, who cares what the law says, because he doesn’t.
maybe cynicism will help
I think cynicism is keeping a vast majority of Americans peaceful right now. We are being told we need to be peaceful, we feel the need to fight. We all cope with this insanity in different ways man.
Trump has already been impeached twice. What else could they do except attempt to remove him from power, and with what army?
Uh, my point exactly. Mother fucker thinks he’s untouchable because he is. The GOP have kneecapped our democracy to the point that if you are in power, you can do whatever the fuck you want.
Didnt the supreme court decide that a president can do whatever if its an “official act”?
We’re waiting on the Kilmar contempt case still aren’t we? (Refusal to turn the planes around)
I think that at this point people should settle on the fact that the only consequences Trump will ever face is in a history book 30 years after WW3/Civil War 2.
Well except in the Reconstruction States because there will be a number of lies that will endure forever, similar to the Lost Cause and Stabbed in the Back myths.
The Constitution is NOT ambiguous!..except 1A…and 2A…and 25A…you know what? It’s NOT ambiguous on things that I disagree with!!
I mean, the Constitution of the United States is also very clear the fucker wasn’t eligible to BE President again, but we all seem to have just shimmied right past that as well.
Do you mean because of the insurrection? I think there’s something in that part about Congress needing to do something too, so Congress dropped the ball on that.
The DoJ was a big help too
Actually, the constitution IS ambiguous in how it defines war. If it weren’t so ambiguous, presidents wouldn’t be able to take advantage of the War Powers Act so easily - as they have done for decades.
The US hasn’t declared war since WWII despite both red and blue presidents dropping untold bombs since then. The hubbub about Trump unilaterally carrying out “military action” is less about scary orange man, and more about an executive branch that has been concentrating power for decades under red and blue presidents alike. This, like many other things, is something that leftists have been sounding alarm bells about for ages.
Stop elevating the Constitution. It is an extremely weak, vague, and antiquated document that was written almost exclusively by 20 something, white, enslaving, landowing white males. I know of no other constitution that explicitly enshrines the right to enslave people. The US constitution is an embarrassment, and its no surprise its getting torn to shreds once the first unabashedly fascist shows up.
Pepperidge Farms remembers “police action” in Vietnam
“Vietnam, stop resisting!”
Really it’s surprising it took this long.
Read a great article, over a decade ago, outlining how Congress has steadily given the Executive more and more power under every administration and every Congress. It had dates and links to every single event. Wish I could find that again.
He’ll do what he wants without consequence, whine about it online as if he’s somehow the victim, and then continue to break more laws.
You know, that technically, when he violated his oath of office the first time, he resigned from his position. Once you violate your oath of office you no longer hold that office. You can do whatever you want to him, worse case scenario you have to wait for a pardon
Yeah but these laws are only meaningful if they’re enforced
I asked Merrick Garland if Trump had done anything wrong and he just shrugged and said “There’s no way for us to know for sure so we didn’t want to take any chances by pressing charges.”
Four years later, I feel like he made the right call. Imagine if the Biden DOJ had actually tried to press charges on Trump. Just imagine… I think we can all agree that their prudence and restraint really helped the US dodge a bullet.
Lmao had to read it a few times. Ty
I’ve never looked at it from that perspective. Now that I’ve tried, my nose and ears are bleeding, so that’s gotta be a good thing, right?
Oooh! Hey ask him where our fucking unredacted Mueller Reports are.
Meaningful laws for thee, laughable pretense for me
I wish the law worked that way, but there is no technicality that violating an oath of office triggers a resignation. Resignation is resignation.
If anything, the interpretation of “official acts” by the Supreme Court explicitly shields him. He cannot be held legally responsible for any decision carried out as president, which is terrifying.
- 🔫 the only way he will be held responsible and accountable.
Don’t miss next time.
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I mean I’m not sure what to say to anyone that still thinks the Constitution is something the United States actually adheres to.
It’s null and void the minute it gets violated at the highest levels of government with no repercussions and we’ve already crossed that line multiple times.
The Constitution is not valid anymore. The first step is to accept that fact. We’re not going to get anywhere endlessly debating a document that isn’t taken seriously by the ones capable of enforcing its mandates.
That’s not a war ! That’s a 3 days military special operation !
-Russian Trump alter ego
This is literally the argument behind our indefinite occupation of South Korea. We’ve been doing a limited policing action for over 70 years. And every two years, the Congress gets a chance to vote on the NDAA that authorizes us to continue deploying troops over there. Every two years, Congress gives it a big old rubber stamp.
Same with the Philippines. Same with Thailand. Same with Cuba. Same with Iraq. Same with… well… easier to just show the picture.
